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Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:22 am

Hi, are the torsion bars used in the simple/double springplate models interchangeable? What diameter is the bar from a '72 Superbeetle?
I'm trying to use type 3 bars. Are these thicker/stiffer?

Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:13 pm

All IRS Type 1s use the same torsion bars. The type of spring plate makes no difference. All IRS Type 1 torsion bars are 22mm in diameter (676mm long).

If you want to play around with stiffer bars, you can use the bars from Porsche 924s and 944s. They are the same length and spline, but bigger in diameter. Beware, there are MANY different sizes to pick from.

You'll have to ask the Type 3 guys if their bars are the same. I think they are, just bigger in diameter. (24mm?)

Don't believe what you read about IRS bars on the parts seller's web sites. Many years ago SAW made a mistake on their listing. This mistake was copied by a lot of parts sellers. Even though SAW have eliminated this error, the fallout remains.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:54 am

I may be wrong, but I think verts used a longer bar.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:00 pm

I could be wrong but I believe that U.S. beetles and ghias used the 24 1/16th bars from 68-72 and 26 9/16ths from 73 on.

My 69 has the double spring plates and uses the 24 inch bars.

You might try searching the off road forum -- lots of good info on torsion bars

Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:10 pm

andk5591 wrote: I may be wrong, but I think verts used a longer bar.
You are wrong. Convertibles use exactly the same bars as a Sedan of the same year and suspension.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:15 pm

danielsan wrote: I could be wrong ....
This is the only thing in your post that is correct.

All IRS Type 1s used the longest bars. That's 676mm or 26 9/16". There was no change in 1973.

Your 69 IRS Beetle uses the 26 9/16" bars.

The 24" bars are for 59 and earlier cars.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:53 pm

I knew I should have taken pictures :)

I'm not an expert and I'd be happy to be proven wrong but I measured my bars at 24 and change when they were out of the car. (I was looking for new set at the time)

Sure, I could made a mistake and I'm too lazy to take the car apart again to double check. Why don't we ask the OP if he will measure the length of the bars on his 72 when he has them out the of car?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:47 pm

Someone could have put the wrong bars into your car sometime in the last 40 years. I don't know if the shorter bar's splines would reach the splines in the torsion housing or the spring plates.

When I had my 69 Beetle and didn't know much about VWs, a local "expert" told me the reason it was sitting low in the rear was that the rear bars were sagged. The only cure, according to him was replacement. I sourced bars from a low mileage dead 76 Beetle and installed them. It was a perfect fit.

Then a few years later when I crashed the car, one of the rear trailing arms was bent. All I could find at the time were the later type arms. So I installed a later arm with the later corresponding correct spring plate and torsion bar cover. Again, everything fit.

Consult your Bentley manual. There were no changes in 1973 to the rear suspension.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:25 am

Well, thanks. If the IRS bar is 22mm, it's thicker than the type 3 bar? This is supposed to be 21 mm, except squareback which is 23 mm. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=577387
Strange. Because i can only source fastback bars for now, the only way is 924/944 bars, this also being as difficult to find as squareback bars :).
I'll try to put gas shocks on all corners, this may bring some improvement to those very stiff front springs...

Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:16 am

Since I am probably wrong, I would suspect the length of the bar is dictated by the end tube length at the spring plate. And I also stand corrected on the vert bars being longer since my 69 sedan pan had the same length bars as the vert donor car. For some reason I thought that I had read somewhere that there was a difference in the bars though...maybe a heavier bar on a vert? Its been a couple years since I had seen that though....

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:56 pm

andk5591 wrote: Since I am probably wrong, I would suspect the length of the bar is dictated by the end tube length at the spring plate. This is correct.

andk5591 wrote: ....maybe a heavier bar on a vert? .... no. Converts had the same chassis parts as a Sedan.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:58 pm

jan72 wrote:
I'll try to put gas shocks on all corners, this may bring some improvement to those very stiff front springs...
Gas shocks on the front is the worst thing you could do. It will ride like a tank if you do. Use the softest oil shocks you can find.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:35 am

Bruce doesn't lie, I put kYB on the front of my Ghia that has adjusters installed, rides like a buckboard. Locals here are blaming it on the adjustable beam, but it is rather smooth with out any shox. So I will hunt up the corresponding oil filled short shox, then salt & eat these $100 kyb's :x

Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:16 am

Oh, Christ....... There's nothing wrong with gas shocks on the front, but of course I'm a total idiot. There are MANY people that run KYB G2Rs on their cars. I run them on the front of the buggy and all 4 corners on my stock 65. KYB Air adjusts are much stiffer and I like those on the back of the buggy, but would never run them on the front of any of my cars.

Now the thing is that I like my cars to have a firmer ride - Not ox cart or anything like that. My winter beater is an 07 Subaru WRX with stock suspension - firm, but not harsh. My 65 bug is my daily driver for nice weather and its a similar ride. Firm, very little roll, but still very confortable.

Its a personal preference and its not chiselled in stone that you must run oil shocks..... Do a search on gas shocks and get more opinions - or better yet, take a ride in a car that has proper gas shocks and decide for yourself...

Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:56 am

AFAIK kyb doesn't have a proper shock for a lowered beam. The ones I have are for a Nissan pickup, which is considerably heavier on the nose than a vw. That in itself should let you have a clue to how the ride is. Btw, the ones I have installed are the grey not the white offroad. I haaven't put the swaybar on yet, but it won't make a difference in ride quality........JP

Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:10 am

I found Glenn's post with part numbers

KYB GR2 part# 343143 - VW Beetle front ball joint (stock)
KYB GR2 part# 344098 - Opel GT front (2” short)
KYB GR2 part# 343208 - Nissan Truck (very short)

Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:31 am

I have the 208's. If you go to the kyb website, you can find all the part #;s & apps. :!:

Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:49 pm

I can definately understand your issue with the Ghia being very stiff. Front engine truck has a little more weight on the front wheels than a Ghia, therefore the shock has to be able to do a lot more damping. But I don't think it would be accurate to assess gas shock performance on your situation. Know what I mean?

Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:32 pm

Got that, I have used gas every since their inception. They seem to dampen better than oil filled in stock applications, BUT we are with apples & oranges, what I need is a rotten orange on the front...(worn oil filled) :roll: JP

Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:34 pm

andk5591 wrote: Oh, Christ....... There's nothing wrong with gas shocks on the front, but of course I'm a total idiot. There are MANY people that run KYB G2Rs on their cars. ...
KYB GR2s are not gas shocks.