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Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:50 am

Desertbusman wrote: It's simple. It's either big money or big time. Which do you want to give up? It takes one or the other to have a good ACVW. Your choice. If you skimp and cut corners you won't end up with a good ACVW.
The only thing I get stuck in paying someone for is quality machine shop work. And then there was press work to R & R the bus ball joints. O-yea, buying a quality rebuilt trans. That's all. There's very little that you can't do at home. Main thing is doing it all correctly. Pay attention to details. If you yourself do, or pay for, a slop job that's what you end up with- slop. Get, study, and learn to follow manuals. If you don't know what to do find out before you do it. Very little expense in buying tools that you will need if you go about it wisely. Don't waste money on a $150 timing light. There is no need and nothing to be gained. A $25 dollar one, a $100 air compressor, and a $25 floor jack will be a handier investment.
Shops doing good work are hard to find. And there are many shops doing real crap work. Because you pay $60-$120/hour doesn't mean it was even worth $10/hr.

Agree to the last word. :wink:

Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:05 am

Wildthings wrote: CombatBus wrote: as much as wildthings is right about fixing some stuff a few hundred in tools will only allow you to fix general items(a good timing light with cost upwards of $150). its when you get into larger problems that you may not have the expertise to work on it and need rebuild tools. press', case splitters, dial indicators, torque wrenches, tap and die set, ETC. it all adds up after a while you might have more $ in the tools that is worth it for a GENERAL consumer. unless you work on ALOT of cars and can get your money back from the use of the tools multiple times. my point is get a good size basic tools set do minor work yourself and the major stuff take to a reputable shop.

Unfortunately what I have found out about shops is that they often do not have the tools they need, even dealerships. Instead they jury rig and come up with ways to get by without buying the needed tool. Often the tool doesn't even cost that much to start with, they just don't have it and don't want to buy it for a one time use. You end up paying gobs of labor and get a job that isn't all that well done to boot.

another good point but thats where finding a good reputable shop comes in.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:07 am

Desertbusman wrote: It's simple. It's either big money or big time. Which do you want to give up? It takes one or the other to have a good ACVW. Your choice. If you skimp and cut corners you won't end up with a good ACVW.
The only thing I get stuck in paying someone for is quality machine shop work. And then there was press work to R & R the bus ball joints. O-yea, buying a quality rebuilt trans. That's all. There's very little that you can't do at home. Main thing is doing it all correctly. Pay attention to details. If you yourself do, or pay for, a slop job that's what you end up with- slop. Get, study, and learn to follow manuals. If you don't know what to do find out before you do it. Very little expense in buying tools that you will need if you go about it wisely. Don't waste money on a $150 timing light. There is no need and nothing to be gained. A $25 dollar one, a $100 air compressor, and a $25 floor jack will be a handier investment.
Shops doing good work are hard to find. And there are many shops doing real crap work. Because you pay $60-$120/hour doesn't mean it was even worth $10/hr.

agreed tools and books investment always a good thing but some people just dont wanna be bothered with it. and there is ALOT to be said for experiance .

Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:22 am

CombatBus wrote: agreed tools and books investment always a good thing but some people just dont wanna be bothered with it. and there is ALOT to be said for experiance .

So then they are back to the choice of paying big time for someone elses labor. And if they can find an experiencd mechanic that really knows what he is doing they are in good shape.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:48 am

I have customers come from the big city 50 miles to me to work on there vw's but I have been doing it from the mid 70's to now. I have to work on the new one to make a living but I love the old one's. Being a one man shop Iam not real fast but my customer's don't mind thay know thay will not be back for the same problem. I also fix little thing's like a dead bulb and the like just becouse I saw it was out and thay like that I treat there car like my own. I have been known to chew them out from time to time becouse thay let things go and now its realy going to cost. I have named some of my customer's car's the one's that leave a impression on me :?
My wife sez I give away to much work and it's true but that's the way it is sometime's. but this is why I have loyal customer's. plus being the only vw manual trany rebiulder in Alaska helps too.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:00 am

I do all my own work, gave myself a big raise this summer, i get a donut with my coffee now.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:26 am

our shop rate is 70.00/hr. on very large jobs and paint jobs it sometimes drops to 40.00/hour. doing the invoice is the hardest part of the work for me. it is not at all uncommon for invoices to exceed $2K, $3K, heck i have had buses here that were just bought off ebay for $8K and the customer gets an invoice for another $3.5K just to get the bus driving safely. labour adds up very quickly and doing the work properly takes time. working on 30-year-old vehicles is almost never easy, they throw curves at you more often than not and even the very nice condition ones still have fasteners that have not been cracked in 35 years, or 20-year-old repairs that were done poorly, etc.

agreed that much of the work we do can be done by home mechanics, to a point. because we are a parts business also, i get a pretty good idea of the type of person who is working on their bus at home, and most of our parts customers are intelligent and careful, these are the most important things when wrenching. tools are critical, but you need the intelligence to use them well also. you also need the sense to know when to stop what you're doing, either because you need guidance or a special tool or a missing part. i would say most botched or poorly done repairs are a result of someone not pausing to figure out what's next, should they wait for that missing part, should they buy or acquire a needed tool, should they just stop until they understand the procedure better. we do this all the time in our shop, what i mean is that we often stop to make sure we are doing the job properly. we have 1000's of dollars worth of original VW manuals for all the aircooled models and we consult them constantly. we have many many specialty tools for aircooled VW's. a lot of the specialty tools are needed, many simply speed up the job. i use a hazet valve adjusting wrench to adjust valve clearances on type 4 powered vehicles, this makes the job so much easier than using a wrench and a screwdriver. but you can do the job with a wrench and screwdriver if you don't have the hazet tool.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:52 am

I bought your gasline kit last Spring and the shop used it and loved it. They are ordering from you now. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:52 pm

Talk about specialty tools I have 4 snap-on tools boxs full and one is just for special tools. and sence I work on late model vw/audi's the 1000s of dollers of electonic's and schooling for this old dog just suck's alot of the time. I wish I could get enuff old vw's in here to make a living but here in Alaska this place is hell on car's thay last about 10 years and thay are rusted pile's of junk. so most aircooled's are for summer fun and thats about it. So Iam jealous of you guys down south that can make a living at it for sure right now it was 15 below outside this AM.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:43 pm

my shade tree guys is great he own a number of buses and bug and have seen him build a few vw's from nothing up his deal is whatever the time was worth to him or how much of a pita the job is, typically he says go to the local vw shop get a quote and cut it in half. great guy who turned into a great friend, i fully trust him and he has always done great work on my vw.

that said, i usally only have him do the work if either
A)can't be bothered myself (stupid tedious time consuming stuff)
B)unsure of myself and want to watch to learn
C)just don't have the time.

doing the work yourself is a major deal imho, if you break down your not going to just pull home dude out of your pocket and get him to working on it on the side of the freeway, plus you won't look like a dumb ass when you ask where the carbs or valves are.

bottom line:
there's not always going to be someone around you who can help, learn self reliance.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:13 pm

This is probably the best thread on this topic I have seen. Really hitting all the important facts, angles, realities, advice and tips. Good going guys :wink:

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:32 pm

It is funny how some threads go. Someone ask the right question at the right time.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:01 pm

CombatBus wrote: as much as wildthings is right about fixing some stuff a few hundred in tools will only allow you to fix general items(a good timing light with cost upwards of $150). its when you get into larger problems that you may not have the expertise to work on it and need rebuild tools. press', case splitters, dial indicators, torque wrenches, tap and die set, ETC. it all adds up after a while you might have more $ in the tools that is worth it for a GENERAL consumer. unless you work on ALOT of cars and can get your money back from the use of the tools multiple times. my point is get a good size basic tools set do minor work yourself and the major stuff take to a reputable shop.

Someone working on their own car doesn't need a $150 timing light. I never even had a $150 timing light when I was working in a shop. A $30 timing light will work for most who just want to tune thier bus up once in awhile. Likewise the home mechanic doesn't need the same quality of other tools as someone using them every day. Decent quality wrenches and sockets are nice to keep the knuckles from getting busted and heads from rounding off but craftsman is sufficient 99% of the time(their ratchets have been getting crappier and crappier though). Nice torque wrenches are definitley a good investment. Avoiding buying tools you don't need will save you more money, ie. a case splitter. Nobody needs a case splitter.

Quote: i mean do you really wanna go spend $45-hundreds on a tool you may only use a few times and get dirty,greasy and spend an hour or more to do it or pay a tech $300 and get it done quicker with less headache.

What the hell's a tech going to do for $300?
Most busses need thousands of dollars of work to be in good order and about half the shops won't do the job as well as a conciensious home mechanic. These cars are foreign to most of todays techs and learning the ins and outs of them isn't in their interest nearly as much as it is for the vehicles owner.

There are probably a hundred threads in here where a professional mechanic was urging the customer to rip off their fuel injection and install a single carb. Mostly because it sounds easier than learning to diagnose an FI system that doesn't have an OBD attachment.