TheSamba.com :: View topic - Firewall Insulation

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:09 pm

I ordered the Firewall Insulation Tarboard 3 piece set for my '74 Classic Beetle (Not Super) from JBUGS:

http://www.jbugs.com/product/111898805.html

When it arrived, it's just thin cheap insulation. Can I install it over top of my old Tarboard. My old Tarboard is alright, just kind of wavy and ugly and a little brittle. Would you order better quality from somewhere else or just install it over my old Tarboard.
Thanks in advance! Bill[/url]

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:14 pm

I'm sure if you absolutely wanted to, you could just put it over the top of the old stuff but why bother? If it falls off it might get sucked into the fan which is no good and if it's thin crappy tar board then who knows how long it'll last before it gets brittle and wavy.

I'd say either buy more quality tar board or use a more "modern" material. I'm sure Viande will chime in soon and could tell you where to get it :wink:

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:19 pm

redlines4us wrote: I ordered the Firewall Insulation Tarboard 3 piece set for my '74 Classic Beetle (Not Super) from JBUGS:

http://www.jbugs.com/product/111898805.html

When it arrived, it's just thin cheap insulation. Can I install it over top of my old Tarboard. My old Tarboard is alright, just kind of wavy and ugly and a little brittle. Would you order better quality from somewhere else or just install it over my old Tarboard.
Thanks in advance! Bill[/url]

You really would need to adhere that cheap stuff to be safe. Your cooling fan really moves a lot of air at speed. The thinner stuff can be easily ripped and drawn into or over the fan and melt your engine. OEVEEDUB.com sells the same 32lb German tarboard set I use. I personally would try to send that garbage back and just get the good stuff.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:20 pm

Zach Thomas wrote: I'm sure if you absolutely wanted to, you could just put it over the top of the old stuff but why bother? If it falls off it might get sucked into the fan which is no good and if it's thin crappy tar board then who knows how long it'll last before it gets brittle and wavy.

I'd say either buy more quality tar board or use a more "modern" material. I'm sure Viande will chime in soon and could tell you where to get it :wink:

Yeah, I am that pita that tries to advise people to buy stuff that works. shame on me. :wink:

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:24 pm

Viande wrote: Zach Thomas wrote: I'm sure if you absolutely wanted to, you could just put it over the top of the old stuff but why bother? If it falls off it might get sucked into the fan which is no good and if it's thin crappy tar board then who knows how long it'll last before it gets brittle and wavy.

I'd say either buy more quality tar board or use a more "modern" material. I'm sure Viande will chime in soon and could tell you where to get it :wink:

Yeah, I am that pita that tries to advise people to buy stuff that works. shame on me. :wink:

Unfortunatley it seems like it's falling on deaf ears with the latest bunch of newbies. :roll:

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:27 pm

I'll be sending this junk back and getting the good stuff.
Lesson learned!

Thanks for the help!

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:30 pm

redlines4us wrote: I'll be sending this junk back and getting the good stuff.
Lesson learned!

Thanks for the help!

=D> =D> =D>

Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:50 pm

Would this be considered the good stuff?

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D111%2D898%2D805

Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:16 pm

redlines4us wrote: Would this be considered the good stuff?

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D111%2D898%2D805

No Idea from those clowns. That little rating system is a joke as has been proven here before. They use that same German rating on Chinese parts. Order it here or Caveat Emptor.

http://www.oeveedub.com/vw/bug-tinware/111-898-605.html

Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:22 pm

I agree. I live in Colorado and even though OE Vee Dub is pretty far from where I live, the parts always come fast and packed expertly. They always carry very high quality parts at fair prices. I have purchased cosmetic as well as structural parts from these guys. A+

Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:24 pm

I'll be calling OE Vee Dub and placing an order right away.
Thanks for the heads up!
Bill

Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:24 pm

Viande wrote: redlines4us wrote: Would this be considered the good stuff?

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D111%2D898%2D805

No Idea from those clowns. That little rating system is a joke as has been proven here before. They use that same German rating on Chinese parts. Order it here or Caveat Emptor.

http://www.oeveedub.com/vw/bug-tinware/111-898-605.html

Viande and other experienced guys, it would probably be helpful to a lot of us getting started to have a whitelist/blacklist of vendors that you experienced guys already know about. For example.. perhaps blacklist the CIP1 and whitelist the known good vendors like oeveedub. I realize this is sometimes a matter of opinion but I figure most of you experienced guys would agree on a great deal of them. Then if someone wants to increase their odds of getting good parts, they can follow the lists. Or start a sticky thread just for this that can be updated in case vendors "see the light" or good vendors gone bad... such as I'm reading about Empi. Just a thought, I guess I don't like to gamble and would much prefer to go with an experienced opinion.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:53 pm

mdpry wrote: Viande wrote: redlines4us wrote: Would this be considered the good stuff?

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D111%2D898%2D805

No Idea from those clowns. That little rating system is a joke as has been proven here before. They use that same German rating on Chinese parts. Order it here or Caveat Emptor.

http://www.oeveedub.com/vw/bug-tinware/111-898-605.html

Viande and other experienced guys, it would probably be helpful to a lot of us getting started to have a whitelist/blacklist of vendors that you experienced guys already know about. For example.. perhaps blacklist the CIP1 and whitelist the known good vendors like oeveedub. I realize this is sometimes a matter of opinion but I figure most of you experienced guys would agree on a great deal of them. Then if someone wants to increase their odds of getting good parts, they can follow the lists. Or start a sticky thread just for this that can be updated in case vendors "see the light" or good vendors gone bad... such as I'm reading about Empi. Just a thought, I guess I don't like to gamble and would much prefer to go with an experienced opinion.

Greta idea but very difficult in execution. There are far too many varying opinions on what is good. Some people here like myself, Jim, Gary, Tram and many others only want to do things once and don't ask price. We simply ask what is the best. Some others here think that the cheapest way is what's best. They do not mind changing parts every year or so if they get them at half the cost of the OEM part. Even though the OEM will last another 10-20-30 years. This logic pervades their contributions here.

There are subtle clues to look for. Does the advertiser have a image of the actual product? Is it large enough to see detail? If not why? When I see tiny, drawn or obscured images it automatically sets off alarms. One should be proud of what they are selling imho. I personally deal mainly in rubber and wiring parts. The available quality was something that bothered me when I returned to the hobby. So I went out and found the OEM's and found who was still making what. Take window seals as a small example. The seals that came on your originally had hot jet formed corners. Much the same reason pipe is mandrel bent. When you force a straight piece of rubber around a curve it deforms. This is why when you install the cheap rubber glass seals they appear drawn at the corners and will leak. Problem is it takes more labor to properly make a glass seal this way. It's far easier and cheaper to take and extrusion and vulcanize the two ends together to form a circle.

So to end yet another lengthy post. :oops: Take time and investigate before you buy. make a post and get some opinions. You can then decide which way seems to provide the solution you are seeking. It is your money and doing it right always cost less than doing it twice. Good luck

Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:58 pm

I actually really like CIP1. You just have to research what you are buying. They also offer various levels of quality for the economically-minded consumer. They carry more parts for more cars than any other classic VW people. They also have a nice wishlist option that can be used as a checklist. You just have to know what you are buying and where to get it.

For example if I were to get rubber seals for doors and glass and such, I would go with West Coast Metric or Wolfsburg West. For kit items I would go to CIP1 (I bought a disk brake kit there, which was perfect) I would buy a carburetor rebuild kit from them or a more expensive pop-out window rebuild kit. For engine parts I would go to aircooled.net or a local source. For high quality body parts, and cosmetic trims, decals and emblems I like OE Vee Dub. Sometimes you can find a deal on a good used or NOS part on BFYObsoleteparts.com. Unfortunately, a lot of the local yokels here carry EMPI junk and offer poor service. Back 10 years ago there were great local sources with back rooms full of good German engine tins and good used heater boxes, and racks of rebuilt engines and transaxles. They are losing ground to online part sourcing but with good reason: every time you drive across town they don't have what you are looking for and they don't answer the phone to check for part availability and they keep erratic hours. They are rude and don't really seem to want the business. I order everything online now and source small shops for the specialty stuff like paint and headliner.

I have wasted money at JC Whitney, CIP1 and local sources, you just have to be a constant advocate for your restoration and keep your standards high. Don't let them tell you that you are wasting your money and that you should start with something with less rust, it's your car with your story.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:21 pm

BFY is gone and left a lot of customers in the lurch. Just FYI

Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:23 pm

mdpry wrote: Viande wrote: redlines4us wrote: Would this be considered the good stuff?

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D111%2D898%2D805

No Idea from those clowns. That little rating system is a joke as has been proven here before. They use that same German rating on Chinese parts. Order it here or Caveat Emptor.

http://www.oeveedub.com/vw/bug-tinware/111-898-605.html

Viande and other experienced guys, it would probably be helpful to a lot of us getting started to have a whitelist/blacklist of vendors that you experienced guys already know about. For example.. perhaps blacklist the CIP1 and whitelist the known good vendors like oeveedub. I realize this is sometimes a matter of opinion but I figure most of you experienced guys would agree on a great deal of them. Then if someone wants to increase their odds of getting good parts, they can follow the lists. Or start a sticky thread just for this that can be updated in case vendors "see the light" or good vendors gone bad... such as I'm reading about Empi. Just a thought, I guess I don't like to gamble and would much prefer to go with an experienced opinion.

You can check the Buyer/Seller feedback forum for a general consensus. The main confusion I see in here is people get price and value confused.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:24 pm

I'm definitely a buy it once kinda guy. I just like to know what I'm buying is what I need and what I want. Its real easy to spend a bundle and end up with lots of great parts that don't work well together, or damage those great parts by not setting them up properly. Us new guys are doing good to get the right part to use and it makes it harder when you don't know where to get it from. Experience is a good teacher, but she charges a lot for her knowledge. ;) At least we have you guys on thesamba to lean on, or we that live out 5 miles past nowhere wouldn't have a chance.

What do you guys think about bugcity.com ?

Thanks to everyone for your help and opinions.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:31 pm

I just got my tar board from CIP1, its very thick and flexable. Make a cardboard template so you can pre cut holes for tabs

Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:34 pm

I get frustrated buying plumbing products for the house. It's a real pisser when every year you replace the same hosebib over and over because quality is pretty much gone. I pay a few bucks for one, but I would rather spend twice as much if I could find one that lasted like they used to. Is there a Wolfsburg West or Viande for household plumbing anywhere?

Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:12 pm

will the good rubber have molded corners all the time?
Bob