TheSamba.com :: View topic - Engine won't turn when it's really cold out

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:23 pm

Hi guys.
I have a 73 1700 with dual webbers, new coil, new battery and it won't turn over when it is really cold out (20's). I get lights and it clicks but the starter doesn't turn. It's about 42 deg's out now and it starts right up. What do you think it's problem is?I searched around and to my surprise I can't find any post that address this problem.[/code]

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:27 pm

It is too darn cold where you are...move to California :lol:

Unfortunately I have no real help for you :(

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:39 pm

Maybe your battery sucks at low temps. Cold temperatures make the battery put out less power... Find a battery that has better cold cranking amps

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:40 pm

What weight oil is in it?

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:48 pm

The battery is a Auto Zone Gold lable with something like 800cca, the most they cca they had. My oil is 10w 30 and about 200 miles fresh.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:06 pm

How about the condition of your ground straps? When I replaced both the battery and tranny grounds it was like I bought a new battery.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:14 pm

The battery ground is the original copper flat braided, doesn't look pretty but looks good enough to do it's job. And I can't say I have ever looked at the tranny ground. Would a bad ground fail only when it's really cold?

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:20 pm

sensimilla wrote: I can't say I have ever looked at the tranny ground. Would a bad ground fail only when it's really cold?
Your problem doesnt seem like its your ground connections because you stated earlier that it starts up when its a little bit warmer outside, but it would still be a good idea to locate and inspect your transmission ground..
Your problem sounds starter related, but i am not sure how the cold directly effects your starter motor, maybe someone else can butt in :)

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:24 pm

use 10-30W oil and a sump heater overnight
Aloha
tp

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:29 pm

Would love to use a heater but it's my ski lodge so I can't always plug er in.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:38 pm

sensimilla wrote: The battery ground is the original copper flat braided, doesn't look pretty but looks good enough to do it's job. And I can't say I have ever looked at the tranny ground. Would a bad ground fail only when it's really cold?

If the starter needs a bit more current and the grounds aren't up to it, yes there can be temperature effects. I replaced mine years ago at about this time of year and noticed a difference. Cleaning and inspecting is free after all and they are fairly cheap to replace, especially if they don't look pretty. I clean all my grounds (lights, under dash, FI and battery/chassis) once a year with a brass wire brush. You could do a resistance test if you have an ohm meter. I just cleaned my grounds last weekend (I am picky) but I would say all my grounds look beautiful :wink:

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:40 pm

Autozone sucks!The company that makes Autozone batteries have had a batch of defects,take it anywhere to have it tested besides Autozone.If it proves to be defective,take it back and tell them so.If it tests good then you can start troubleshooting your electrical system.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:53 pm

been there done that on mine and other VW's from that era. The grease in the starter solenoid gets sticky. Tap (not whack) it with a hammer while someone else turns the key. See if that helps and report back.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:56 pm

I had the same problem and cleaned all the grounds and did what I could but still occassionally would have a no-start scenario. I bought a cold start relay kit from one of the VW supply places and never had the problem again

Andre

Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:05 pm

Andre4 wrote: I had the same problem and cleaned all the grounds and did what I could but still occassionally would have a no-start scenario. I bought a cold start relay kit from one of the VW supply places and never had the problem again

Andre

They have those? Neat...
Maybe the same sort of thing is happening here just like how a hot start relay is needed sometimes for warm engines. Temp gets too low and the voltage drop is too much to get the starter going
CCA is amps at 0F for 30 seconds staying above 7 volts

Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:47 pm

Cold start relays are a bandaid.First check the volts of your battery.Then your battery connections,then your ground strap, then your starter connections.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:54 pm

Quote: Cold start relays are a bandaid.First check the volts of your battery.Then your battery connections,then your ground strap, then your starter connections.

although many feel otherwise, I couldn't agree more. If one is dropping voltage somewher it is best to find out where and fix it.

Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:57 pm

Quote: been there done that on mine and other VW's from that era. The grease in the starter solenoid gets sticky. Tap (not whack) it with a hammer while someone else turns the key. See if that helps and report back.

I'm in agreement with the comment above. Grease loses lubricating properties in extreme cold...especially if it's old. Pull the starter and disassemble and clean/lubricate. Brush on a light coat of slick 50 multipurpose grease on the gear that engages the flywheel and reinstall. Check all grounds cause you are getting a voltage drop too I bet due to poor connections. It's probably a compound problem.

Let us know how it goes.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:54 am

My '70 bay did that, after checking starter i replaced all cables with 6V size as they have a lot larger copper core to handle the hi current a starter needs. Most 12v cables are mostly insulation and barely do the job in warm weather.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:37 am

On my 71 I added an extra ground from my battery to my engine. I bolted to one of the studs on the oil stand. I run a Interstate 80 amp and it gets cold here in Graham Washington down in the 20's and below and never had a problem using straight 30 weight oil.