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Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:03 pm

Need help identifying this torsion. Also like help identifying the steering box.

Planning on buying this frame tomorrow. This is the typical "project never started" by the seller. I asked but he claimed to have no idea.

Any additional comments on the frame you may have after looking at the pictures would be appreciated. The good, the bad, the etc...

Thanks, Toby

Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:09 pm

man!I think I wore out my delete key responding to this one!! are you interested in the torsion alone, or the frame? if the torsion, I would suggest some close ups...i would say it appears to be a modified IRS, or independant rear, with a trick dual shock setup using maybe another stock donor torsion...looks like it could be a cool frame if not badly rusted, the different color paint suggests it could have either been "repaired" as it rusted...???

Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:31 pm

For the most part I was wanting to know what type rear torsion this is. I was expecting to see the rear horns for the tranny mount when I opened the pics for the first time. I can't tell if the brackets on the torsion tube were for trailing arms or what? Appears to have a larger than "normal" diameter torsion bar tube as well. I wondered if this was not a bus torsion? nfortunately these are the only pictures I currently have.

The seller claims he bought the frame new from a local builder about 10-12 years ago. He claims it has never been built beyond what is seen in the pics...i.e. it has never rolled down the street, a trail or a dune...nothing.

I asked about the king pin...used, new, rebuilt. Again he had no idea but said it looks as if it were purchased new yesterday.

He claims it sat in his garage waiting to be worked on for nearly 10 years. Claims his wife made him remove it from the garage for space at which time he sprayed it primer, paint or what ever he had to help prevent rusting while sitting outside.

Thanks, Toby

Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:13 pm

as I look at that pic again... the later bus did have a more modern reliance on engine mounts rather than trans mounts...and a much bigger torsion... (I was under the impression you had taken the pics yourself, (sorry) I suppose I have become used to looking at my car, (I cut the frame horns off a long time ago..) Definantly NOT T3... looks like a 68-72 bus hanger from what i know... the year gap may not be exact... come to think of it... I know the 68 and later trailing arms were IRS... but the 73 and later were engine mount....no horns... AH HELL CUT IT OUT AND GO COILOVER

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:46 am

STOICH wrote: as I look at that pic again... the later bus did have a more modern reliance on engine mounts rather than trans mounts...and a much bigger torsion... (I was under the impression you had taken the pics yourself, (sorry) I suppose I have become used to looking at my car, (I cut the frame horns off a long time ago..) Definantly NOT T3... looks like a 68-72 bus hanger from what i know... the year gap may not be exact... come to think of it... I know the 68 and later trailing arms were IRS... but the 73 and later were engine mount....no horns... AH HELL CUT IT OUT AND GO COILOVER

What do you mean you cut the frame horns off? Got any pics?

Anybody else....got any ideas what this torsion is?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:14 am

Corvair torsion?
It may take a bit of work but not bad. I'd chop the middle out and shorten it properly so you get rid of those useless back seats. Long travel would look cool on it.
Jeff

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:50 am

JiI wrote: Corvair torsion?
It may take a bit of work but not bad. I'd chop the middle out and shorten it properly so you get rid of those useless back seats. Long travel would look cool on it.
Jeff

Useless back seats???

Those back seats and the fact that it is 13" longer than my current rail is exactly the reason I'm buying it.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:23 am

I always saw back seats as dead weight.
Jeff

Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:33 am

Toby from MO wrote: STOICH wrote: as I look at that pic again... the later bus did have a more modern reliance on engine mounts rather than trans mounts...and a much bigger torsion... (I was under the impression you had taken the pics yourself, (sorry) I suppose I have become used to looking at my car, (I cut the frame horns off a long time ago..) Definantly NOT T3... looks like a 68-72 bus hanger from what i know... the year gap may not be exact... come to think of it... I know the 68 and later trailing arms were IRS... but the 73 and later were engine mount....no horns... AH HELL CUT IT OUT AND GO COILOVER

What do you mean you cut the frame horns off? Got any pics?

Anybody else....got any ideas what this torsion is?

with all the aftermarket parts that go on these cars in the long run... truthfully my torsion could have just been a straight peice of tubing... really wouldn't have mattered what kind of torsion I had...I cut the horns off because i was going to use 930 cvs....and a different engine... didn't want to deal with clearance issues, plus I like to move my trans back 3 inches to make up the angle of the axles created by the 3x3 tailing arms. With the horns gone, it makes a nice clean "palette" toput things where you want them. This car has much more travel than my last car because of this... (last hardtop bug anyhow

Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:43 am

JiI wrote: I always saw back seats as dead weight.
Jeff

In this case those back seats are for my trophies....my 5yr & 8yr old...certainly not dead weight.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:48 am

Toby from MO wrote: JiI wrote: I always saw back seats as dead weight.
Jeff

In this case those back seats are for my trophies....my 5yr & 8yr old...certainly not dead weight.

this is the issue I now have... when i started my project, i had no kids.... now i will have 3 after july!

Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:18 am

Torsion is for sure a type ll set up 1968 -1975 irs . Building a three seater buggy with one installed in it. Torsion tube is 3.5 inches in diameter and 6 inches wider than a bug torsion . Top shock mount has been changed to mount daul shocks. Part # 211 plus others will be stamped on side of shock tower castings . Steering box looks like out of a type lll . Hope this helps you GOOD LUCK .

Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:00 am

FRFABWORKS wrote: Torsion is for sure a type ll set up 1968 -1975 irs . Building a three seater buggy with one installed in it. Torsion tube is 3.5 inches in diameter and 6 inches wider than a bug torsion . Top shock mount has been changed to mount daul shocks. Part # 211 plus others will be stamped on side of shock tower castings . Steering box looks like out of a type lll . Hope this helps you GOOD LUCK .

Would you mind posting some detailed pics or your installation? I'm rather new to the rail buggy world and when i opened these pics I was lost. I cannot picture in my mind how tranny mounts would be fabricated...along with no minds eye for how the trailing arms and shock mounts install.

If I chose too...how difficult would it be to cut this one out and install a type 1. Not saying the type 1 is better but my current 4 seater rail has one and it is the limit of my experience.

BTW...I look at many of the custom creations on this board and can't imagine how all the geometry, welding and ideas were figured out.

I'm buying this frame for $200 so regardless of the work I have to put into it I think the value of my initial purchase is worth it.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:11 am

http://www.berrienbuggy.com/id95.htm

put the "Tubular Frame Horns" from this link on it..

it's IRS, and cut off those shock mounts and fab some real ones on the frame.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:24 am

cptcliffhanger wrote: http://www.berrienbuggy.com/id95.htm

put the "Tubular Frame Horns" from this link on it..

it's IRS, and cut off those shock mounts and fab some real ones on the frame.

I was just on Barriens website looking at those. I would suspect they would fab up a pair to fit the larger torsion diamter.

When you guys talk about shock & shock mounts. Are you suggesting coil over as my primary suspension type....i.e. don't use the actual torsion bars, spring plates, etc... From my perspective it would certainly make life easier not dealing with the factory torsion.

Thanks.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:02 pm

STOICH wrote: Toby from MO wrote: JiI wrote: I always saw back seats as dead weight.
Jeff

In this case those back seats are for my trophies....my 5yr & 8yr old...certainly not dead weight.

this is the issue I now have... when i started my project, i had no kids.... now i will have 3 after july!

That's what ebay is for!

Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:06 pm

Toby from MO wrote: FRFABWORKS wrote: Torsion is for sure a type ll set up 1968 -1975 irs . Building a three seater buggy with one installed in it. Torsion tube is 3.5 inches in diameter and 6 inches wider than a bug torsion . Top shock mount has been changed to mount daul shocks. Part # 211 plus others will be stamped on side of shock tower castings . Steering box looks like out of a type lll . Hope this helps you GOOD LUCK .

Would you mind posting some detailed pics or your installation? I'm rather new to the rail buggy world and when i opened these pics I was lost. I cannot picture in my mind how tranny mounts would be fabricated...along with no minds eye for how the trailing arms and shock mounts install.

If I chose too...how difficult would it be to cut this one out and install a type 1. Not saying the type 1 is better but my current 4 seater rail has one and it is the limit of my experience.

BTW...I look at many of the custom creations on this board and can't imagine how all the geometry, welding and ideas were figured out.

I'm buying this frame for $200 so regardless of the work I have to put into it I think the value of my initial purchase is worth it.

Putting in a T1 rear isn't too hard but since the bus housing is wider, the mounting points may have to be pulled in to compensate for the narrower T1. I'd leave that one in there and run some long arms on it. Better stability too!
Jeff

Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:22 pm

JiI wrote: STOICH wrote: Toby from MO wrote: JiI wrote: I always saw back seats as dead weight.
Jeff

In this case those back seats are for my trophies....my 5yr & 8yr old...certainly not dead weight.

this is the issue I now have... when i started my project, i had no kids.... now i will have 3 after july!

That's what ebay is for!

ebay? ... uh what, ebay my kids? hadn't thought of that

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:40 pm

STOICH wrote: JiI wrote: STOICH wrote: Toby from MO wrote: JiI wrote: I always saw back seats as dead weight.
Jeff

In this case those back seats are for my trophies....my 5yr & 8yr old...certainly not dead weight.

this is the issue I now have... when i started my project, i had no kids.... now i will have 3 after july!

That's what ebay is for!

ebay? ... uh what, ebay my kids? hadn't thought of that

Or trade them for a nice turbo setup or some nice long travel shocks....

Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:56 pm

Well I bought the frame. This thing is in great shape.

The frame has some surface rust but nothing that a good sandblasting won't take care of. Other than this everything else looks great. All the welds look awesome. The king pin and the steering box look to be like new...minus a little grime from sitting out in the yard.

I now believe the seller when he said the frame had never been "on the road". I thoroughly looked it over and couldn't find a single clue to lend the belief otherwise. No mounting tabs for anything, no seat mounts, the shifter bucket was even welded in yet.

Still yet don't know what to do with this torsion. I guess my research begins.

Thanks for all the help this morning.

Toby