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Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:45 pm

I plan on buying a cheap Bug and putting a rotary into it. I know a lot of people here are against it - but what's your reasoning?

(I'm not looking for a guide or any one that's done it - I've got that down ... just wondering what you guys personally think).

I'm on the fence about it. I'm definitely going to do it (eventually), but I don't think I would put it in any car that I would put time into restoring to OE-ish specs. A baja or a daily beater, sure. Not so much a car I've spent a good chunk of change on and then swapped in a rotary ...

Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:58 pm

The way I see it, its your car do with it what you want. Also I sort of hope that you do the swap, I've never seen a rotary powered beetle.

Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:02 pm

Hippie1303 wrote: The way I see it, its your car do with it what you want. Also I sort of hope that you do the swap, I've never seen a rotary powered beetle.

Hey Jesus :lol:

Both of these are rotary Bugs ... though not exactly what I'd do. I'd be happy with a "stock" carbed 13b. I don't want to drive around spinning everywhere I go - 120-150hp would be fine for me (which is what I'd expect from a stock 13b).

Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:24 pm

rotary engines eat stock bug transaxles, they spin 9k+rpms

Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:27 pm

I can understand why someone would do a swap, but I personally wouldn't. If it got to the point where a T1 engine wouldn't cut it for me anymore, I'd just move on to a whole different type of car. Really, why not just use the whole RX-7 (or WRX, or whatever) and benefit from its superior chassis instead of trying to make the engine work in a VW?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:08 pm

You can get a LOT of hp out of a vw engine. My 2375 puts out 207hp and will keep up with anything on the road! Plus, most people think that is only a vw, it can't bevery fast. Until I pull a stand-uyp wheelie and rocket down the strip. With a modified bug, you loose that WOW factor!

Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:03 am

they all have there place and purpose but it depends what u want from it really
ive had hi performance vw engines, currently subaru powered and also a rotary powered bug

from my perspective there was no benefit to the rotary conversion
the engine whilst small still needed hacking to the valance to fit
it was lumpy and choppy as hell, completely unusable for street car
the fuel economy of them is truely shitfull. made most V6s look economical and the power band was all wrong for vw gearboxes

but the main reason i wanted to swap it for a subi was it was all wrong balance wise. threw off the cars center of gravity

Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:28 am

DonnieDarko wrote: I plan on buying a cheap Bug and putting a rotary into it. I know a lot of people here are against it - but what's your reasoning?

I think the real question is... "What is your reasoning for doing it?"

I'm not for, or against it. I just think you should know why YOU want to do it.

If you want to build something different that few others have tried, then you should just do it and not ask others what they think.

If you are doing it to squeeze more power into a bug, there are other ways to do it that might cost you less in the long run for the same/more power/weight/balance.

Like Hippie1303 said... It's your car. :)

Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:50 am

After all the research I've done regarding swapping (including Joel's writeup, which is one of the best in my opinion :wink: ) I'd go Subaru. If you really want the rotary, go for it. But the Subaru just seems to make a lot more sense.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:30 am

How bout a 1.9 TDI out of a golf or jetta :D

Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:41 am

vugbug68 wrote: How bout a 1.9 TDI out of a golf or jetta :D

There you go, a tdi can reliable put out 150hp and god knows what torque... and would get like 60mpg in a bug....

and never forget, if you are swapping an engine for pure speed, that is unwise, seeing as the acvw flat 4 T1 is THE fastest AND quickest 4cyl engine ever on a wheeled vehicle..

1/4 mile in 6.53s @209mph...

Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:34 am

fastinradford wrote: vugbug68 wrote: How bout a 1.9 TDI out of a golf or jetta :D

There you go, a tdi can reliable put out 150hp and god knows what torque... and would get like 60mpg in a bug....

and never forget, if you are swapping an engine for pure speed, that is unwise, seeing as the acvw flat 4 T1 is THE fastest AND quickest 4cyl engine ever on a wheeled vehicle..

1/4 mile in 6.53s @209mph...

Yeah but, a rocket would be way faster. That's the problem with "the fastest" or "the most powerful" theres always something faster or more powerful. Superlatives only work in one category, ie "the fastest 4 cyl engine". Well, ok, how about fastest 6 cyl? Doesn't count? Why not? Self imposed restrictions on what 'counts' or not is silly. The only way an acvw makes sense performance wise is if you hobble it with artificial limitations like "well its still air cooled". Throw something else into the equation, like i wonder how many miles that 6.5 second vw goes before a rebuild?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:49 am

vugbug68 wrote: How bout a 1.9 TDI out of a golf or jetta :D

Actually, I'm considering just that! Just to be different - no other reason.

Good little diesels, to boot.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:10 pm

I personally like VW's because they're aircooled. They already have a unique engine with a lot of potential. I would swap in a Type 4 or Porsche Flat-6 before I would consider a waterpumper.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:17 pm

Inane Cathode wrote: fastinradford wrote: vugbug68 wrote: How bout a 1.9 TDI out of a golf or jetta :D

There you go, a tdi can reliable put out 150hp and god knows what torque... and would get like 60mpg in a bug....

and never forget, if you are swapping an engine for pure speed, that is unwise, seeing as the acvw flat 4 T1 is THE fastest AND quickest 4cyl engine ever on a wheeled vehicle..

1/4 mile in 6.53s @209mph...

Yeah but, a rocket would be way faster. That's the problem with "the fastest" or "the most powerful" theres always something faster or more powerful. Superlatives only work in one category, ie "the fastest 4 cyl engine". Well, ok, how about fastest 6 cyl? Doesn't count? Why not? Self imposed restrictions on what 'counts' or not is silly. The only way an acvw makes sense performance wise is if you hobble it with artificial limitations like "well its still air cooled". Throw something else into the equation, like i wonder how many miles that 6.5 second vw goes before a rebuild?

I agree with the Insane Cathode. Silly is right.
If you want to hack something up to go fast, just put a 351 in a Pinto, no harm in that.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:32 pm

I'm a purist, in that I like to see VW in VW--so I'm on board with that TDI swap. Didn't HotVWs do a notch with a H2O vanagon motor years back? Cool!

As far as logic goes, it's just pure brand loyalty for me. I'd do a 2.0 Ford if I were going to go off-brand, for the ease of parts and such, though a Sub' makes great sense too.

My vote is for the TDI. Still a VW, and likely a rocketship torque-monster in a Bug. Gonna want a better tranny, I think... :D

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:33 pm

69 Jim wrote: Inane Cathode wrote: fastinradford wrote: vugbug68 wrote: How bout a 1.9 TDI out of a golf or jetta :D

There you go, a tdi can reliable put out 150hp and god knows what torque... and would get like 60mpg in a bug....

and never forget, if you are swapping an engine for pure speed, that is unwise, seeing as the acvw flat 4 T1 is THE fastest AND quickest 4cyl engine ever on a wheeled vehicle..

1/4 mile in 6.53s @209mph...

Yeah but, a rocket would be way faster. That's the problem with "the fastest" or "the most powerful" theres always something faster or more powerful. Superlatives only work in one category, ie "the fastest 4 cyl engine". Well, ok, how about fastest 6 cyl? Doesn't count? Why not? Self imposed restrictions on what 'counts' or not is silly. The only way an acvw makes sense performance wise is if you hobble it with artificial limitations like "well its still air cooled". Throw something else into the equation, like i wonder how many miles that 6.5 second vw goes before a rebuild?

I agree with the Insane Cathode. Silly is right.
If you want to hack something up to go fast, just put a 351 in a Pinto, no harm in that.

Cept to like. Your spine, and internal organs, lol.

Which is why im putting an ej22 into my beetle, its perfect for what *i'm* looking for.

"Why not just get a subaru?" One would ask. Well, when i was a kid like 14-15, i built a gokart. "Why dont you just buy a go kart, its safer faster and so forth?" Aside from the obvious, $$$, the point is i built it, and its everything i want. A subaru doesnt look like a beetle, the brakes arent as simple, everyone has a subaru, not a beetle with a subaru engine. It's unique, thats how i roll.

That's probably why people do engine conversions, dare to be different, and a little bit of that home built gokart feel.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:13 pm

what is a 13b?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:22 pm

ibjames wrote: what is a 13b?
mazda rotary, 1300cc displacement, not sure what the b stands for.

I love to see different engines in vw's and i respect the owner if they can do it and make it work, but personally i wouldn't have anything else except an aircooled flat 4. thats the whole reason i got into vw's i wanted simplicity and i like messing with carbs and points and valves

Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:40 am

Zach Thomas wrote: After all the research I've done regarding swapping (including Joel's writeup, which is one of the best in my opinion :wink: ) I'd go Subaru. If you really want the rotary, go for it. But the Subaru just seems to make a lot more sense.

aww aren't you sweet :wink:

vugbug68, i was the same when i was younger
i used to love frigging around with vw engines
not much is as satisfying as getting a sick vw purring again

but now im getting older i just wanted a fit and forget high performance engine which was why i went the subi
all it needs is the oil and filter changed once a year and its happy as

a vw engine putting out 150+hp is not exactly low maintaince