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Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:23 pm

I think I spotted the source of a major oil leak. I suspected the oil cooler at first, but I've deduced (after removing it) that it's actually my the upper portion of my cylinder head pulling away from the case.

Spotted the remain "lip" of the cylinder going into the head. Question is, can you see it?

I've got my engine out, and I'm replacing the seals on my leaky pushrod tubes. Couple of questions:

1. Can I remove the cylinder heads and exhaust together? If not, is there a trick to removing the exhaust stud nuts?

2. What case savers might I need, if any? I've got experience with the whole placing of threaded sleeves (cheap version of the timeserts) post tapping hole tidbit. Mainly, what's the side of the threads for the case studs?

Thanks.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:31 pm

I just found out the trick to removing exhaust stud nuts (unfortunately too late for 3 of my studs). This has been posted elsewhere by those more experienced than I.

Take a sharp chisel and a hammer, hit a flat side of the nut (I had to do this several times). You want to almost split the nut, but not quite, so you don't damage the threads on the stud.

Soak the nut with PB blaster. (You can do this first for a day or so if you have time, the longer the better.) The nut will have expanded after the chisel trick and the blaster will soak right in.

Using this trick, I needed no heat, my rusty nuts came right off. Worked incredibly well. Wish I had discovered it before I broke 3 studs...

Of course, you will need to replace the nuts after this.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:36 pm

i just dont see how oil would end up on the top of the cylinders like yours unless you have bad rings. what were compression numbers, perhaps you have blown rings? or maybe the head just wasnt sealing properly and all the darker metal is just carbon.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:52 pm

The head does look to be seated onto the actual cylinder too well. I compared the gaps between both heads, on either side of the engine. There's a marked difference, plus that small lip that should be covered up. I think.

It could be that the previous ownder torqued the head on incorrectly? I mean, I can't move the head up or down or anything. Could I be that lucky?

Thanks for the tip on nut chiseling. I'll have to go that route. I'll have to find a chisel.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:09 pm

Here is the info I have posted before on how not to break off studs when they have old steel nuts that are rusted on there solid.

As has been said too, using brass or copper/copper plated nuts is a good option. I still use regular nuts a lot and just be sure to put some anti seize on the threads.

In order to not break a stud ...get a whack at it with a chisel at the correct angle and it will bust the nut loose from the threads of the stud and allow penetrating oil to get in where it needs and takes the pressure off the nut to the stud as well.

Any bit of a decent hammer blow you can get on the edge or side of the nut with a sharp chisel will keep you from breaking off the stud.

Your engine looks quite tired and surely you had a lot of extra heat going on with the cooling blocked from all that dirt and debris.

I am not sure what your budget or plans are for this engine buy you have probably lost the "seat" between the head and the cylinders and that is blow by. The head surface is almost certainly "beat" from the cylinder and would require flycutting/machine work to seat correctly again.

You might get lucky though, you won't know until you take the head off and see.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:24 pm

I agree with above and if you did nothing but retourque the heads for now you must clean all that debris, grease and crud. I'd soak everything in degreaser for a couple of hours and hit it with a power washer to clean out those cooling fins !

Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:58 pm

I'll try a head removal, perhaps before the weekend is out.

This is my first engine removal and fixin'. The oil pressor sensor, I know, was leaking a good amount of oil when I had the engine running. I mean, running a stream!

I've got my eyes on a different oil pressure sender made by VDO. It has a longer thread and all.

--

My heads seem to be a little worse for wear regardless. The previous owner installed SPRING helicoils in just about every single spark plug threading. I mugged those up something fierce when using a thread chaser, unwittingly. Discovery!

Would it be wise to shop for some used singleport heads on the Samba? I mean other than asking if the heads have any cracks inbetween the valves, what else could I ask? Of course, I now know to ask about the meeting face of the head to cylinder lippage and the threading of the spark plug holes - plus those exhaust studs.

Maybe I could posts some pictures of potential purchase candidates here or something.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:09 pm

that oil pressure sensor looks fine but the one thing i did notice is it was missing Teflon tape around the threads. thats probably why it was leaking so much. as for the heads, if the helicoils bother you that much then feel free to get new heads but if the helicoils were done right you should have no structural or running issues. just replace the helicoils and be on your way.

post some pics of your heads.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:01 pm

Here are some thumbnails. I took only the one troubled side apart. All the top studs in my H engine case came out.

I'll clean the heads and cylinder lips up a wee bit and post more (hopefully more focused pictures).

Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:09 pm

That head has been loose for a long time. The seating surface is comprimised. I can see the ridge even in your small pictures.

I'd be checking the end play on the engine and if you think the bottom end has life then you might get a few years out of it if you do a proper top end rebuild with a pair of rebuilt heads and perhaps new pistons and cylinders or hone and re ring what you have.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:56 pm

connella08 wrote: that oil pressure sensor looks fine but the one thing i did notice is it was missing Teflon tape around the threads. thats probably why it was leaking so much. as for the heads, if the helicoils bother you that much then feel free to get new heads but if the helicoils were done right you should have no structural or running issues. just replace the helicoils and be on your way.

post some pics of your heads.

No Teflon tape on the OP sending unit threads please.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:17 pm

More pictures. Are the costs of honing and re-ringing comparable to that of buying a whole new set of pistons/cylinders? Also, could someone edit one of those pix detailing where I'm supposed to be looking for wear and suches??

Thanks,
monk

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:21 pm

Did those heads have some sort of a "gasket" sealing ring in between the cylinders and the heads?

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:40 pm

Yes. It's a weird metal ring thing. It even has a groove that they fit into.

I can take more pics of those.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:25 pm

monkbonk wrote: Yes. It's a weird metal ring thing. It even has a groove that they fit into.

I can take more pics of those.

Then that's your ( was your ) problem. That engine was rebuilt at some point ( probably GEX or other "rebuilder) who used those "gaskets" in between the cylinder heads and the cylinders. VW DID NOT use them from the factory on the type 1 engines ( they did on the type 4 engine at one time but even abandoned that after a few years of FAILURES)
Builders that don't know any better or don't care often use those rings in between the cylinder and the head.

That is why you see the blow by and the split burned in said sealing rings.

The low dark "burnt spots" on the sealing surface of the head in your pics is where the combustion burned through the rings and created the leak. Also as stated the surface of the heads is not going to be "flat/true" any longer and these heads either need to be rebuilt by someone competent or traded in for rebuilt pair etc.

Besides this issue you have to check the valve guides and seats etc. In other words a full rebuild of the heads is probably in order.

Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:59 pm

I see.

I've been mulling over this. I need more clarification on what a good cylinder seat should be (when looking for used cylinder heads - budge, etc)

Would a good cylinder seat have a raised lip OR would it be perfectly smooth?

It would NOT be a groove etched around the perimeter would it?

Aside from that, I've been looking at this thread too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383982&highlight=buying+junk+engine

So, in terms of valves .. you want:
1. The cylinders to be able to hold liquid
2. No pitting on the valve faces
3. Reasonably carbon-free/clean valves

And in terms of cracks, you want to check for:
1. Cracks between the valves
2. Cracks alongside the valve journals
3. Cracks up into the spark plug hole.

Overall, check for oil seapage and especially check for carbon/back areas where the cylinders meet the head?
Yes?

Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:18 pm

What your asking would be solved by a "rebuilt" pair of heads from a vendor who knows WTF they are doing with VW HEADS.

Any used head you buy would be highly suspect of needing one of many things done to them "machine work wise" so I don't personally recommend "used" heads.

You might want to contact Jacob at www.brothersvwmachine.com and see what they have to offer for your needs.

Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:23 pm

Yes, having the heads re-done by a professional would be an absolute, sure-fire way of making sure that all pre-existing problems are to be corrected, concerting a brighter future, less worries, etc.

It's not that I haven't attempted to persue that route out of sheer impatience, thriftiness, etc.

I received a quote from a somewhat local VW business whose proprietor was on top of his game. Had I the money, I'd certainly spend it - an eased conscience down the road and whatnot.

I just cannot budget it. Given that, I'd rather seek out a used pair of heads by the same means as one who'd choose to inspect and recycle a particular part for a particular purpose - providing that it's condition is amiable, useable, and so forth.

And how does one inspect? By establishing a set base criteria of which to analyze. That's all I'm trying to do.

Are you to say that I'm not to find a single, honest, willing and helpful soul in the Samba classifieds that'd help me run through possible condition wearing areas as a means of determining whether their part is a right fit for me? That they're not respective of their own reputation, thus filled by their previous acts likened to the aforementioned traits of honor, less deceit and mal intent?

Am I at all close, as per my previous post, in determining whether cylinder head A is better than cylinder head B, C or D? Or is it a lost cause?

I, as a super-newb, ask (even beg) of you to give me a criteria.
(It's not as if I'm not listening; I am).

Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:42 pm

what people are trying to say is buying used heads is a crap shoot at best. MOST people that buy used heads, then send the heads to a VW shop to be checked and reworked. if your engine is stock, it will be cheaper, easier, to buy new heads.

if you are set on buying used, then the best thing you can hope for is look for cracks in between valves, and from valve to spark plug. then check fins for broked pieces.

over the last 20 years, when i had to use a USED head, i would always change the valves, and the springs, keepers, retainers. slap them on and run them. sometimes they worked, sometimes not. save yourself the headache and just buy new. they don't cost much more.

Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:58 pm

keifernet wrote: VW DID NOT use them from the factory on the type 1 engines

I thought the copper gaskets were used on 40hp stale air engines to keep "fumes" from getting into the passenger compartment. I didnt think they were actually at the cylinder/head sealing area but at the base of the ledge on the outside of the cylinder but still in the hole of the head when torqued down.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150072&highlight=copper+gasket+40hp