TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:17 am

The generator in my '47 started to scream on the way back from H.O. so I guess I need to replace the bearings. This is a job I haven't done before but I guess the bearings are readily available. Any advice/tips etc?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:59 am

At least here they offer type 6202 bearings with plastic dust covers, but originally there is used separate washer covers. It is needed to remove those integrated covers before use. Otherwise there is too much thickness and it get stuck.

Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:50 am

Wolfsburg West sells the bearings

http://wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111903221A

And the bushes.

Not too much to rebuilding them. You'll need a very wide, thick slotted screw driver bit to get the field cores out without munging up the the slot in the screw. I made one out of an old chisel and use it in an impact gun. You'll probably want to re-wrap the field windings an replace the leads. The paper wrap does not hold up well. I re-wrap them with black cloth tape that I use with the wiring harnesses. I use new cloth covered wires for the leads. Of course replace the brushes.

The armatures I usually just clean up, and chuck them in my drill press and spin them and run some fine ScotchBrite against the commutators. Also, I use dental pick to clean the gaps between the commutators. Metallic junk in there can cause shorts or current bleeds between the windings.

If you take it all the way down, you can bead blast the housing, and have it re-plated. Paint the end caps and make it look "cracking".... :wink:

Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:23 am

Thanks for the advice guys.

I think I have managed to find a source for the bearings here in the UK so I will strip it down and give it a shot.

Cheers!
Rich.

Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:30 am

One thing to watch for Rich. On one end (fan end I think) the bearing is retained in the cap and you can't just pull the cap and bearing off the end of the armature. And on the early ones, the retaining plate is held in by two slotted M4 or M5 screws. Easy to see if you are looking for it, but miss it, and, say, maybe use a wheel puller to try to get the end cap off, and you'll bugger up the retainer.

Ask me how I know.

Look for the screws, and there is enough room for your to get them out with a small screwdriver. Later ones used a circlip, but I think the early ones had screws.

Also, make sure as you slip stuff off the armature, lay it all out in the order you took it off. Lots of washers and spacers and such. Manuals have pretty good exploded views of this.

Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:47 am

johnshenry wrote: One thing to watch for Rich. On one end (fan end I think) the bearing is retained in the cap and you can't just pull the cap and bearing off the end of the armature. And on the early ones, the retaining plate is held in by two slotted M4 or M5 screws. Easy to see if you are looking for it, but miss it, and, say, maybe use a wheel puller to try to get the end cap off, and you'll bugger up the retainer.

Ask me how I know.

Look for the screws, and there is enough room for your to get them out with a small screwdriver. Later ones used a circlip, but I think the early ones had screws.

Also, make sure as you slip stuff off the armature, lay it all out in the order you took it off. Lots of washers and spacers and such. Manuals have pretty good exploded views of this.

Thanks John, good advice.

Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:49 am

My new generator bearings arrived in the post this morning, so I proceeded to strip it down and made sure everything was laid out very carefully in order.

Once stripped, I compared it to my 1952-55 workshop manual which shows the components of a 'RED' generator....

In my unit, no.18 (spacer washer) is not present. I reassembled it as it came apart with the new bearings fitted. However, when I came to slip the armature back into the frame, a very thin 'wavy' washer appeared by the brushes......

and here's a picture of the wavy washer slipped over the end of the armature just for some size perspective...

Firstly, I wonder if this is an early 'RED' generator (it's from my '47) and therefore different to the one in the 52-55 'shop manual.
Secondly, where on Earth has that wavy washer come from? It only appeared when I slotted the armature back into the case. I can only think that it sits in the end of the bearing housing (pulley end) and I did not notice it in there when I disassembled the unit.

Any ideas would be most welcome!!

Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:49 pm

your assumption is correct. It is there to preload the bearing on the pulley end.

Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:55 pm

splitjunkie wrote: your assumption is correct. It is there to preload the bearing on the pulley end.

Thank you and praise The Lord.

It's all fitted back together now and appears to be just fine. Do you know if the missing spacer washer is correct though (as per my description above)? I assume it must be correct, but just want to make sure.
My '46, '48 and '49 parts manuals do not have exploded diagrams of the generator parts.

Many thanks,
Rich.

Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:03 pm

....and John- thanks for your advice on the small M5 retainer plate screws. I would have done exactly what you did with your puller if you hadn't warned me!! :lol:

Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:16 pm

RichOakley wrote: ....and John- thanks for your advice on the small M5 retainer plate screws. I would have done exactly what you did with your puller if you hadn't warned me!! :lol:

You're welcome. We can make mistakes, but we don't all need to make the same one!!!

Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:18 pm

Glenn Cheaney is a master at rebuilding these old generators. Give him a call, he is a very well educated on these and has worked on old generators for 40+ years.

Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:18 pm

John,

I remember reading a previous topic from you on the rebuild process and recall you mentioned the windings needed magnetising or something and you had a pic of the generator hooked up to something, was that really neccesary and is that something they did in the factory ?

Thanks
Kev

Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:55 pm

kevm wrote: John,

I remember reading a previous topic from you on the rebuild process and recall you mentioned the windings needed magnetising or something and you had a pic of the generator hooked up to something, was that really neccesary and is that something they did in the factory ?

Thanks
Kev

Kev,

I had to polarise a generator a few years ago when I had one re-wound on a '62. It basically re-magnetises the dynamo enough for the first initial spin. To do it, you short out the DF connection to the case and then connect a wire from the battery to D+. The generator will start to spin and off you go!

Rich.

PS: still got the Huf carb.
PPS: don't suppose you're going to the Heritage meeting tomorrow lunchtime?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:00 pm

RichOakley wrote: kevm wrote: John,

I remember reading a previous topic from you on the rebuild process and recall you mentioned the windings needed magnetising or something and you had a pic of the generator hooked up to something, was that really neccesary and is that something they did in the factory ?

Thanks
Kev

Kev,

I had to polarise a generator a few years ago when I had one re-wound on a '62. It basically re-magnetises the dynamo enough for the first initial spin. To do it, you short out the DF connection to the case and then connect a wire from the battery to D+. The generator will start to spin and off you go!

Rich.

PS: still got the Huf carb.
PPS: don't suppose you're going to the Heritage meeting tomorrow lunchtime?

Yep. Not needed unless you rewind the field coils and/or take the filed cores out. What it does it creates a little bit of permanent residual magnetism in the steel cores so the current "starts off" the right way.

In Australia, you have to reverse to polarity since magnetism is polarized the reverse way there.

:wink: j/k

Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:01 am

Anyone else with generator or starter problems here in the UK would get good help from Pete Good. See Volksgoods logo on the links page of http://www.historicvws.org.uk/

I've no financial connection with Pete's business, he's just a good supporter of those of us with early cars here in the UK.

Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:28 am

rod_vw wrote: Anyone else with generator or starter problems here in the UK would get good help from Pete Good. See Volksgoods logo on the links page of http://www.historicvws.org.uk/

I've no financial connection with Pete's business, he's just a good supporter of those of us with early cars here in the UK.

I agree Rod. Spoke to him the other day- very helpful guy.

Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:22 am

johnshenry wrote: RichOakley wrote: kevm wrote: John,

I remember reading a previous topic from you on the rebuild process and recall you mentioned the windings needed magnetising or something and you had a pic of the generator hooked up to something, was that really neccesary and is that something they did in the factory ?

Thanks
Kev

Kev,

I had to polarise a generator a few years ago when I had one re-wound on a '62. It basically re-magnetises the dynamo enough for the first initial spin. To do it, you short out the DF connection to the case and then connect a wire from the battery to D+. The generator will start to spin and off you go!

Rich.

PS: still got the Huf carb.
PPS: don't suppose you're going to the Heritage meeting tomorrow lunchtime?

Yep. Not needed unless you rewind the field coils and/or take the filed cores out. What it does it creates a little bit of permanent residual magnetism in the steel cores so the current "starts off" the right way.

In Australia, you have to reverse to polarity since magnetism is polarized the reverse way there.
:wink: j/k

Many thanks guys, I have removed and rewrapped the field coils in mine so I will need to do this.

Rich, saw you still have the Huf carb, I am interested in it, I should have bid :roll:

Missed the heritage meet but I think a few of us are going to the Ace cafe on Tuesday night (weather permitting) if you are about ?

Cheers
Kev

Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:26 pm

johnshenry wrote: I re-wrap them with black cloth tape that I use with the wiring harnesses. I use new cloth covered wires for the leads.

Where would one find this black cloth tape? Any store recommendations?

Also does anyone have a source of a small amount of the cloth-wrapped green and red wire? I only need the couple of inches and every place I have looked wants to sell me multiple feet of it.

Thanks !

Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:52 am

nlorntson wrote: johnshenry wrote: I re-wrap them with black cloth tape that I use with the wiring harnesses. I use new cloth covered wires for the leads.

Where would one find this black cloth tape? Any store recommendations?

Also does anyone have a source of a small amount of the cloth-wrapped green and red wire? I only need the couple of inches and every place I have looked wants to sell me multiple feet of it.

Thanks !

I get my cloth tape from Kabel Schmidt in Germany Nancy. I but a bunch of other wiring stuff from them. Rhode Island Wire also sells it, but theirs is heavier, and you'd have to be careful about building up too much thickness.

I can probably send you the wire and some tape if you want, LMK what you need exactly via e-mail...