TheSamba.com :: View topic - Engine advice needed... not firing on all cylinders?

Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:01 pm

I recently changed my plug wires and cap (after market EMPI) stuff I had in my garage from last year when I had a super beetle. The car was'nt started for weeks to test. Then I rewired just about everything in the front of my rail cause I made a dash so I would have more leg room.

Today I completed the wiring and backed out of the garage for a test start.

Very hard to start but I figured it was cold.. so I kept trying. Finally it started but I had to hold the throttle down to keep it running.. something didnt sound right... It wouldnt idle either... so I let it stall and was looking around. I noticed that the exhaust pipes from 3 & 4 were barely warmed, while 1 & 2 were hot. Im no engine expert but I feel like cylinders 3&4 are not firing..

am I correct in assuming this? I have rechecked the wires a hundred or so times.. what else could it be?

I did also have that valve cover off but made no adjustments...

anyone have any advice?

Thanks

Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:04 pm

What carb(s)?

Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:34 pm

I think it is a solex 1600 dp motor.

Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:34 pm

here is a post of the firing order.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://z.ab...n%26sa%3DX

Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:47 pm

Swap the plug wires on 3 & 4 and let's see what happens. :)

Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:57 pm

I actually tried that earlier and nothing seemed to change.

looking at that firing diagram makes me wonder on the plug wires though. That image does help but I cant tell if mine is setup right... I mean mine looks to be maybe rotated a bit from the picture.

Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:59 pm

I can't see much of the carb from that angle, but it doesn't look like a Solex. It looks like a Zenith maybe? Anyways, if on throat feeds 3&4 and the other feeds 1&2, my guess is that you have an idle jet clogged on the side that feed 3&4. If that's the case, pull and clean the idle jet. It happens all the time on my Webs, especially if it sits for a few weeks.

Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:08 pm

carb looks like a progresive of some type.

Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:12 pm

Thanks, but I think my cap is off 180 degrees judging by that link diagram above. I could have sworn that I pulled off each wire one at a time but I seem to have turned the cap maybe.. I will try to turn it tomorrow and see what happens. My kids are in bed so it will have to wait.

on that diagram, if someone can look at it with me.. what does the arrow around the cap signify? Should my cap be in the position shown in the image or turned from that position?

Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:17 pm

57baja wrote: I can't see much of the carb from that angle, but it doesn't look like a Solex. It looks like a Zenith maybe? Anyways, if on throat feeds 3&4 and the other feeds 1&2, my guess is that you have an idle jet clogged on the side that feed 3&4. If that's the case, pull and clean the idle jet. It happens all the time on my Webs, especially if it sits for a few weeks.

by the looks of the pics, both throats merge to one,more like a progressive setup, which should keep both banks getting the fuel from the same source. I have had many-a-complaint from the empi dist. caps having bad enough hair line fractures (upon receipt when new) to cause misfire, or even a no-run scenario. I would maybe put the old cap back on if rechecking the fire order comes back ok. Perhaps take a pic from the top looking down at where the wires go, I'm sure one of us can help from there regarding fire order.
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If an out-of-box 009 dist. is used, and the case is not T3, the inspection plate will usually point towards the fuel pump nut (13) (nearest the fan belt).(I use this method because it will get the engine timed close enough to run, assuming everything else is ok. The #1 plug will plug in the cap point nearest you. From there, count 1,4,3,2 going clockwise looking down at the cap. (I have run in to many people that don't know the cylinder #'s are stamped near the plugs) Just in case. hope this helps, hope i didn't over do-it :wink: =================================

Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:17 pm

the arrow is the direction of rotation of the rotor.

now change the wires & fire it up, we dont want to wait till tomorrow to see what happens :roll:

Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:22 pm

QRP wrote: the arrow is the direction of rotation of the rotor.

now change the wires & fire it up, we dont want to wait till tomorrow to see what happens :roll:

Thanks, my wife would throw a tizzy.. I am certain this will fix it :) ehh.. I hope :)

Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:24 pm

... And when you remove the cap, it should only fit on one way. There's a notch in it that fits into the notch in the distributor housing. Also, speaking of the distributor housing, there's a small line filed into the lip of it to signify that cylinder is #1. That's a good starting point.

Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:58 pm

Looks like your distributor is 180 out!!!!!!you can tell by ignition wires are in the front!!!!

Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:16 am

RGR wrote: Looks like your distributor is 180 out!!!!!!you can tell by ignition wires are in the front!!!!
Good eye!. adust the dist so that the inspection plate is pointing towards the 13mm nut on the fuel pump
nearest the fan belt and readjust your wires to the proper firing order.

Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:53 pm

RGR wrote: Looks like your distributor is 180 out!!!!!!you can tell by ignition wires are in the front!!!!

hehe, I was just gonna ask this.

I only had a few minutes today so I checked the cap, sure enough my cap was on wrong.. But I am telling ya I changed it wire by wire.. no biggie cause it then would not start at all.

It seemed to be back firing as it was trying to start so I was going to ask if it was possible that the whole thing was on wrong to begin with.

I will attempt to adjust. I work nights and tonight is Christmas eve so I dont know if I'll get to it tonight.

That picture by the way is a pic of the car when it was running.. DOH!

Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:36 pm

sorry no batteries for my camera right now.

I am setting it like shown in this pic from classified section.

Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:10 pm

if you didn't spin the distributor and just swapped wires then if it is backfiring you've got crossed wires somewhere. double check make sure your firing order is right. then i would put it at top dead center for number one and make sure the rotor is pointing to it. if it's pointing to number 3 then swap your wires., still no boom boom then take out each plug and hold it against the metal, have a buddy crank your engine real quick, or if you can reach the starter then you do it, ( i have a plug for a relay that i can plug a button into so i can remote start from the rear) and check for spark on each plug. if your getting spark then it's got to be something with your wires still, I use plenty of starting fluid when trying to get it to fire also. eliminates carb issues kinda. also, make sure you dist. clam is tight, i had one loose one time and it backed out just enough to kinda spin and not at times, took me a while to figure that out. good luck. if it's been sitting a long time, make sure your valves arn't stuck. I had that happen to me recently, bent some pushrods and stuff. funny thing it was still running at high idle with 2 cylinders f^%$ed up. sorry didn't mean to be long winded, good luck

Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:20 pm

There should be a little line/notch in the dizzy showing where cylinder one is firing I'd then find TDC on cylinder number one and set your distributor to where you have that line to set the timing by.

http://www.vw-resource.com/find_tdc.html

I had this problem same problem at one point, but someone kept telling me to retard the engine when I actually needed to advance it lol :oops:

Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:13 pm

1.) I have put the crankshaft pulley to TDC on TOP as marked on the pulley. I positioned TDC to the top of motor.

My Crankshaft Pulley is the one with the red label marking TDC and all of the degrees around the pulley.

2.) I have rotated the distributor to where the rotor is pointing to the notch on its rim.

3.) I have reinstalled the cap with rotor at #1. The cap is installed correctly.

Tomorrow I will back it out for another start attempt.

Im learning new things here, Thanks guys.