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Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:48 pm

perrib wrote: I have driven a Toyota 4x4 with a before when it had a front locker and after the locker broke with the spider gears welded. As a spool It was very hard to turn even at slow speeds off road. If I owned a 4x4 it would have an ARB style locker not a spool.

Getting back to the spool for the VW. You might as well try try. I forgot you were open desert racing. I have seen the silt beds. They are nasty, My only concern would be how long a drag racing spool will hold up to large tires and the constant pounding of the rough terrain. The trophy trucks use spools but they don't have the engine on top of the rear diff.

Heck yeah, a locked front end is WAY harder to turn than an unlocked front. but the bug will be open front. Just a spool in the rear.

Honestly, if ARB made a diff for the bug, that would be the best option. Unfortunately, they don't.. :(

I still have not found a single person that has tried it. Kinda interesting actually. It surprises me.

Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:01 pm

ok my .02

we tried running a limited slip diff in a 1/2-1600 car. what we found out was that the car had a harder time going up sand washes and through heavy silt. the best we could come up with was: in a open diff setup when a tire comes off the ground the motor is allowed to rev up and gain some engine speed back. when the limited slip was in there the tires were turning at the same speed thus dragging the motor speed down. i think that you will experience the same thing if you ran a spool. since both you and i are in limited class cars we need to keep our engines revved up. i think you will be very unhappy if you put it in.

Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:05 pm

gearheadgumby wrote: ok my .02

we tried running a limited slip diff in a 1/2-1600 car. what we found out was that the car had a harder time going up sand washes and through heavy silt. the best we could come up with was: in a open diff setup when a tire comes off the ground the motor is allowed to rev up and gain some engine speed back. when the limited slip was in there the tires were turning at the same speed thus dragging the motor speed down. i think that you will experience the same thing if you ran a spool. since both you and i are in limited class cars we need to keep our engines revved up. i think you will be very unhappy if you put it in.

Interesting...

I'm in Vegas as well.
You racing BAP?

Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:07 pm

Mace,
If you saw the last 100 miles of the Baja 1000 you would not believe what Erics car did with an open diff. We made it up some silt hills that a pro truck got stuck on. An 11 with an open diff will go anywhere if you keep the speed and R's up. The thing I question on this endeavor is this, Class 11 being one of the oldest classes, your 30 years too late on thinking this up. It's been tried, just no one around to remember who tried it, and if no one is running it, its because it dosn't work. Anything that you can think up now, has been tried and if no one is running it, there is a reason. I think your money would be better spent buying a Weddle ring and pinion. Thats whats going to break, maybe a spool will work in the shortcourse SNORE stuff, but you would not finish a 1000 milie lapaz run on one......Not bagging on your idea, just trying to keep you from wasting a transmission. A good example is the shock rule and the new long travel Bilstein and Fox shocks, everyone thinks it's new, Eric said someone already did it in the 70's. The problem was they couldn't keep the shock body from distorting. Now they are doing it and no one remembers that it was already done, nothing new. Good luck with the spool hope it does work out for you it'd be neat to see you power sliding those corners at BAP! P.S. Scott Sebastian at Metal Craft says they used to call the welded diffs, Lincoln Lockers, cause you'd use the lincoln welder to weld the gears in the diff up.

Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:31 pm

blitzschnell racing wrote: Mace,
If you saw the last 100 miles of the Baja 1000 you would not believe what Erics car did with an open diff. We made it up some silt hills that a pro truck got stuck on. An 11 with an open diff will go anywhere if you keep the speed and R's up. The thing I question on this endeavor is this, Class 11 being one of the oldest classes, your 30 years too late on thinking this up. It's been tried, just no one around to remember who tried it, and if no one is running it, its because it dosn't work. Anything that you can think up now, has been tried and if no one is running it, there is a reason. I think your money would be better spent buying a Weddle ring and pinion. Thats whats going to break, maybe a spool will work in the shortcourse SNORE stuff, but you would not finish a 1000 milie lapaz run on one......Not bagging on your idea, just trying to keep you from wasting a transmission. A good example is the shock rule and the new long travel Bilstein and Fox shocks, everyone thinks it's new, Eric said someone already did it in the 70's. The problem was they couldn't keep the shock body from distorting. Now they are doing it and no one remembers that it was already done, nothing new. Good luck with the spool hope it does work out for you it'd be neat to see you power sliding those corners at BAP! P.S. Scott Sebastian at Metal Craft says they used to call the welded diffs, Lincoln Lockers, cause you'd use the lincoln welder to weld the gears in the diff up.

It's fully amazing at what an 11 car can do with an open diff. However, what I am trying to avoid is the REALLY hard hits from needing to take a obstacle too fast. It would not surprise me at all that someone may have tried this before. But 30 years ago we did not have the HP the 11 cars do now.

Honestly, I am amazed that I cannot find anyone that has experienced this. Heck, I would think Dave would manage to pull some sort of info about them out of his head. It may indeed be that people have tried them before and they sucked. But what if they have never been tried simply because it had not been tried before and "that's not how we do things around here" (cause that never happens in this class ;) ).

I'd still like to talk to at least one person that has tried it. Closest I have gotten is the gentleman above that tried a limited slip in his 1600 car.

I won't have the spool in by BAP. I'll be open at that point, but I may try it in Caliente. Even if it does not work, I can always sell the spool and replace it with a superdiff. IRS spools are EXPENSIVE! Only reason I am considering it is because I got a fully built Drag tranny for $100.

(and no I am not gonna use the drag tranny. I know that the close ratio 1/2/3/4 gearsets are not legal)

Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:41 am

I know your not gonna build an illegal tranny, and I don't think a spool is illegal either. Scott said you can do the same thing with a welded diff, it'll be interesting to see how it works. Can't say it hasn't been thought of by everyone, just no one recently has had the tennis ba!!s to try it. Might have Scott weld one up for me and go race one of the VORRA races to see how it goes? You might be on to something, Id be more interested in the LSD so you have some give. Wonder what the spool would do at the 1000 when you go around those tite corners on pavement headed to the wash.........See you at BAP, good luck if I don't talk to you first.

Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:30 am

blitzschnell racing wrote: I know your not gonna build an illegal tranny, and I don't think a spool is illegal either. Scott said you can do the same thing with a welded diff, it'll be interesting to see how it works. Can't say it hasn't been thought of by everyone, just no one recently has had the tennis ba!!s to try it. Might have Scott weld one up for me and go race one of the VORRA races to see how it goes? You might be on to something, Id be more interested in the LSD so you have some give. Wonder what the spool would do at the 1000 when you go around those tite corners on pavement headed to the wash.........See you at BAP, good luck if I don't talk to you first.

I agree that a limited slip would most likely be a better option. I'd try one, but the spool was considerably cheaper.

At the 1000, you would sound like a trophy truck.. That's a good thing, right??? :D

Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:59 am

Mace wrote: gearheadgumby wrote: ok my .02

we tried running a limited slip diff in a 1/2-1600 car. what we found out was that the car had a harder time going up sand washes and through heavy silt. the best we could come up with was: in a open diff setup when a tire comes off the ground the motor is allowed to rev up and gain some engine speed back. when the limited slip was in there the tires were turning at the same speed thus dragging the motor speed down. i think that you will experience the same thing if you ran a spool. since both you and i are in limited class cars we need to keep our engines revved up. i think you will be very unhappy if you put it in.

Interesting...

I'm in Vegas as well.
You racing BAP?
yeah i will be racing bap. but not with a limited slip :lol: . just didn't work out so well for me. if you have questions about your trans you are more than welcome to call me 702-221-4363 john

Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:28 am

gearheadgumby wrote: Mace wrote:

Interesting...

I'm in Vegas as well.
You racing BAP?
yeah i will be racing bap. but not with a limited slip :lol: . just didn't work out so well for me. if you have questions about your trans you are more than welcome to call me 702-221-4363 john

John from RC trans?
We've met a couple of times I work with Frank Baird and am a friend of Jason Alper. I was actually planning on having you set up my trans for Caliente. With the spool :D

And then probably take it out for the next race ;)

Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:43 pm

yep that's me. if you want to try it just make sure you get the spool that is steel. the aluminum spools i don't think will hold up for a car doing a lot of turns.