TheSamba.com :: View topic - Bonehead Engine Question; "Doghouse Engine"

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:00 am

I have a 69 Westy with a 1600 engine. It has the typical, what I call older-style VW oil cooling surround tin (the black thing the generator/cooling fan sticks into). It's about a foot tall! It's not a pancake engine!

Is this type of stock engine, in a 69 Westy considered a "doghouse engine?" (don't laugh,,,,I'm a newbie) OK,,,maybe laugh a little - I'm ez to get along with!

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:02 am

The switched to the 'pancake' later in the early 70's so your engine is the right type.

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:10 am

Emer; I assume the "pancake engines" were the type that were used in the station wagon (gosh, what are they,,,"Type-4's?!?). The ones with the exposed coolong fan visible, or at least the screen mesh of the fan??

I know,,,keep laughing,,,,I'll learn; but till then I do appreciate the edyou mocation! "Thanks!!"

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:14 am

NON doghouse

doghouse

69 was originally a NON doghouse, single port.
basically, any (US spec) dual port upright engine has a doghouse cooler.

type 4

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:28 am

68-70 - Regular Fan shroud with oil cooler inside the shroud

'71 - Oil cooler moved outside the rear of the shroud

Both look very much the same from the front and are referred to as "type 1" motors or "upright" motors. The top picture is missing the extra metal pieces sticking out on the right side because it is not a "doghouse" and the oil cooler lives inside the shroud. The bottom 2 pictures have the extra metal covering the oil cooler outside.

Doghouse

Quote: Introduced in the 1971 model year on all upright air-cooled engines, the "doghouse" fan shroud (so called because of the two additional pieces of tin that were added to the front of the shroud to accommodate the new cooler) provided a more efficient system of cooling the VW engine. The new design re-located the oil cooler (found previously within the shroud, over the number 3 cylinder) by offsetting it away from number three towards the front of the car. Coupled with a high volume fan this set up provided more cooling to the VW engine. As a side note, the doghouse fan itself is not interchangeable with non-doghouse shrouds and vice versa.

This is the "pancake" or "type 4" motor that comes in the '72-'79 buses:

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:32 am

Thanks so much for the tips; I misunderstood the term of "doghouse" (even after looking at the dictionary) - "duh!?!" I'll have to look at what I have tonight when I go home!

The single-port -vs- dual port question still remains in my mind. How can I tell what mine is? Does the intake manifold give a clue, or is it all by numbers???

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:43 am

Yes you can tell by the intake manifold. If you look at the ends where they enter the top of the heads a single port will be one single tube all the way down to the head. A dual port will seem to split and get much wider when it enters the head.

Single port

Dual port

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:00 am

thanks for asking the question
and thanks to the sambans that replied and posted the photos
more than one '69VW owner has been educated
Aloha
tp

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:03 am

Caleb; I think I know what you mean by the dual-port manifold. Though I can't see in the photo very well,,,,,does the manifold split-off into a "Y" section, down-stream from the orange clamps on the manifold?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:08 am

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:10 am

Tom P; yeah,,,I may have misunderstood the term "doghouse" when I bought my Westy; maybe paid too much, but it's done, and I'm happy.

If I do have a 1600, single port, non-doghouse engine, my next modification is going to be some way to increase cooling capacity. I'll have to check on retrofits to a doghouse cooler (if possible), or worse case,,,,,,an aftermarket upgrade, because I will be driving in the mountains and the Westy's are heavy and underpowered.

First, I have to determine what I got and go from there. Thank-you everyone that helped!

If I am a single-port, non-dogouse 1600 engine, can anyone recommend oil cooling capacity increase mods??

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:16 am

After investing in a guage to see if you really are in danger of running too hot (>210º F), I would say an extra capacity sump ~ 1-1.5 quarts would be about as far as I would go.

Oil temps are greatly influenced by 1) correct engine tuning and 2) RPMs.

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:29 am

the best thing i ever did for my '69 camper was to put on a large capacity oil sump

more oil, better cooling, more power on hills
easy and cheap, but less ground clearance

I use my camper for skiing and do a lot of uphills at altitiude
the increase in hill climbing ability was very noticeable
no more cooling stops on the way up

I put on front disc brakes and that improved the downhill stopping ability, but the conversion was expensive and involved a different master cylinder, new wheels and tires

Now I can go uphill without stopping and downhill, I can stop anytime, not just at the bottom

Aloha
tp

Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:00 am

Tom P; Thats great info. I looked into the disk brakes, but they said they had to not only change the front end, but put in a booster & reducer valve for the rear.

Was the sump just a bolt-on conversion??

Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:09 am

No need to put in any sort of oil pressure booster spring. That is for worn out engines mostly.

The sump looks something like this.....

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECO0016&cartid=

The 69 bus has an interesting set up for the front brakes and involves dual wheel cylinders for each front wheel. Invest the time in making them work as they are supposed to and keep up with normal adjusting they require every other oil change. You want the rear breakes to be 100% also.

None of that will give you any extra power though. When you get some extra dough consider going to some small dual 1 barrel carbs, a SVDA distributor, and a less restrictive exhaust. That will actually help.

Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:56 am

Randy,,,,,just that bolt-on sump will do the trick?? I can see the theory, ad it looks easy to do. I'll invest in one soon

Thanks again, and be careful of "black-fly" season this year!

"Flatlander"

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:26 pm

One more question: If I replace the sump, does the oil dip-stick have to be changed??

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:07 pm

Nope. Full is still full. It is just deeper.

Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:09 am

I'm going to install weber 34 ict carbs on my 1641 cc (bay from 1971). And i want to fit oldspeed airfilters just like the Riechert set has.
The guy who is helping me with this says it will be close (or no) fit against the fan shroud.
I think i have the "normal" manifolds that go with the weber 34 ict.
My helping friend think the manifolds could also be for a type 3 pancake engine.
So my question is: is there a difference in the measurments of types of fan shrouds/ fanhouses?

Photo of my engine, sorry can't see the fan house very good.

Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:29 am

Not on geniune VW shrouds, doghouse and non doghouse look exactly the same from the pulley side.

The only shroud that is narrower is the knockoff 36HP style shrouds, but they have no internal vanes to optimise airflow and fit poorly, a huge downgrade in cooling.