TheSamba.com :: View topic - Just failed Emissions- Resolved!

Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:49 am

Problem with the state of Colorado is from what I've searched (may be wrong), all vehicles made before 1981 require a smog test at 2 idle speeds. I think it has something to do with the altitude involved and that exempting antiques/classics is no-happening deal.
Here in VA, both my Beeetle and my Bus are registered as antiques, with permanent registration and no need for smog/safety inspections. However, I'm limited to 250 miles of travel from home, and the vehicle cannot be used for daily transportation, such as driving to work.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:19 pm

Glad this came up. I'm also in denver and plan on starting up my 59 project next month. The car will be a weekend warrior and by no means a daily driver. Back in Texas, you just had to have it safety inspected (lights/horn/signals) once a year to stay legal. Seems kind of backassward to have to pass emissions on a car that is considered an antique.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:31 pm

Ugh well I hope you don't have my issues.

OK peeps here is where I stand.

I went for another emissions test at lunch. Failed but only on one thing instead of two.

Previously I failed the HC PPM.
Before 'tune up': 2500RPM: 946.2 Idle: 1176.6 Limit is 1000
After Tunup: I passed: 2500 RPM: 528.3 Idle: 858.9 (Obviously still high but passed. Maybe as a result of resetting point gap and new plugs?
I do think I need new points, my dwell is low at 40.

I Failed the second time on CO%:

2500RPM: 7.20 Idle: 6.72 Limit is 5.5

My first fail was:
2500: 8.87 Idle 5.57

This is telling me that I am still running Rich.

What do we think, more adjustments with the fuel/Air mix and probably general Idle? Seems I went lower on the high RPM but lower at Idle. Not sure what this means.

So to lean out my mixture I will need to adjust the Air Mix screw on my carb? Which direction is to lean it out? I thought it was opening it by turning left. From what I understand I may need to adjust my Idle after this to compensate which I can test with my tach meter.

I feel like I'm getting closer anyways.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:47 pm

I think you coud approach this in two stages. First, given your higher altitude, I'm not surprised you are running a little rich. I'd go one size smaller on the main jet. Then adjust the idle mixture leaner. This will probably further lower your HC and also bring the CO down, hopefully to a pass level.

But the combo of altitude and unsure ignition advance needs with a non-stock carb and distributor mean you might run the risk of running a little TOO lean at times, which can overheat and damage your motor.

Do you know a friendly local shop with the equipment to measure your emissions the old-fashioned way? I mean with an oxygen sensor, or an older smog check setup? You should ensure it's passing but also not too lean under several conditions: idle, high rpm cruise, acceleration.

With your non-stock setup we can only guess, and if we guess wrong you burn your motor or continue to fail emissions. It's worth it for mpg, power, and life of the motor to get it set right once and for all.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:34 pm

Actually I was thinking along the same times. There is a fantastic VW Shop here and I have over a month to get this done before my 60 day temps are up. I was thinking of dropping it off for them to look at for the same reasons. It's one thing to pass Emissions but more interested in long term health of my bug.

There are a couple of other items that I wanted to ask them about too like High Altitude timing and suggestions.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:04 pm

30 years ago I had a bug and replaced the muffler with an aftermarket. It had telescoping arms so it would fit different size motors. The four tubes came together where a muffler bolted to it. I carefully cut out a gasket. It made a hissing noise. I passed emisions. The guy looked at me funny and shrugged is shoulders as if to say, "Whatever". Then while driving there was a loud bang and suddenly I had a normal throaty low restriction noise. I had carefully made a gasket by punching holes for the four bolts that mount to the muffler...and never cut out the large center hole. Eventually the pressure blew through the gasket. So the exhaust was hissing from the telescoping arms and never reached the muffler end. That's why the guy looked at me funny. He probably wasn't getting any readings.

Not that I'm suggesting it.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:55 pm

crvc wrote: 30 years ago I had a bug and replaced the muffler with an aftermarket. It had telescoping arms so it would fit different size motors. The four tubes came together where a muffler bolted to it. I carefully cut out a gasket. It made a hissing noise. I passed emisions. The guy looked at me funny and shrugged is shoulders as if to say, "Whatever". Then while driving there was a loud bang and suddenly I had a normal throaty low restriction noise. I had carefully made a gasket by punching holes for the four bolts that mount to the muffler...and never cut out the large center hole. Eventually the pressure blew through the gasket. So the exhaust was hissing from the telescoping arms and never reached the muffler end. That's why the guy looked at me funny. He probably wasn't getting any readings.

Not that I'm suggesting it.

Ouch! But maybe you're on to something, confuse the emissions folks. Well the guy today did say that I needed to pop the trunk and walked to the front of the car. :x

Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:18 pm

Boyrcr420 wrote: crvc wrote: 30 years ago I had a bug and replaced the muffler with an aftermarket. It had telescoping arms so it would fit different size motors. The four tubes came together where a muffler bolted to it. I carefully cut out a gasket. It made a hissing noise. I passed emisions. The guy looked at me funny and shrugged is shoulders as if to say, "Whatever". Then while driving there was a loud bang and suddenly I had a normal throaty low restriction noise. I had carefully made a gasket by punching holes for the four bolts that mount to the muffler...and never cut out the large center hole. Eventually the pressure blew through the gasket. So the exhaust was hissing from the telescoping arms and never reached the muffler end. That's why the guy looked at me funny. He probably wasn't getting any readings.

Not that I'm suggesting it.

Ouch! But maybe you're on to something, confuse the emissions folks. Well the guy today did say that I needed to pop the trunk and walked to the front of the car. :x

Haha, oh man... Thats a bad sign.

Aren't these cars popular enough for people (especially mechanics) to know that the engine is in the rear!?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 pm

Not sure that I would call Emissions staff Mechanics.

Granted I am a smoker but when sitting in line for my turn I was watching the attendant direct cars while smoking. Something funny about an Emissions attendant smoking....

Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:35 am

Most smog check machines evaluate how much flow you are getting out of your exhaust pipe as a condition of passing. This is to prevent tricks like diverter valves and air injection to fool the meter. At least in Cali, those tricks haven't worked for about 25 years. Today they use a dyno and measure under load, though the specs for odler cars are just at static rpms.

If you go non-stock, it's up to you to get the mixture and timing right, not just for emissions, but also engine life and mpg. Maybe there is a shop that will rent or give you time on their machine. You may get more power out of proper timing and carb tune than from all the bolt on goodies people put on their motors!

Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:49 pm

Well I just passed Emissions!

Had a professional tune up at a great local VW Place this morning who reset my timing, valves and carb. Just got my last smog test and passed with very acceptable numbers. Hurray for that.

I'll be checking where everything is currently set so that I have a good benchmark in the future.

Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:36 pm

Boyrcr420 wrote: Well I just passed Emissions!

Had a professional tune up at a great local VW Place this morning who reset my timing, valves and carb. Just got my last smog test and passed with very acceptable numbers. Hurray for that.

I'll be checking where everything is currently set so that I have a good benchmark in the future.

Who did your tune up? I need to find a reliable shop out here in denver.

Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:44 pm

They need to give cars that are 30 or 40 years old + a friggin break on emissions! There's not that dang many of them anyway.

Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:27 pm

veedubfreak59 wrote: Boyrcr420 wrote: Well I just passed Emissions!

Had a professional tune up at a great local VW Place this morning who reset my timing, valves and carb. Just got my last smog test and passed with very acceptable numbers. Hurray for that.

I'll be checking where everything is currently set so that I have a good benchmark in the future.

Who did your tune up? I need to find a reliable shop out here in denver.

Painters Grinding is the bomb. Very nice people. They are off W Mississippi near Santa Fe on Jason Ave. They did my Muffler a few weeks ago too. Several people recommended them to me and I would do the same.

Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:29 pm

stuco wrote: They need to give cars that are 30 or 40 years old + a friggin break on emissions! There's not that dang many of them anyway.

My office building admin mentioned that I could register it as a Collectible which is cheaper and exempt from future emissions. Going to ask the DMV about this on Monday. But yeah, I totally agree. $45 is emissions testing fees to get to this point. That would have bought me SOMETHING on WW :wink:

Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:59 pm

Since there were a lot of comments including my own about having to have a 66 emissions tested...

I did just finally register my Bug and got my title after a month after purchase.

Turns out in CO if the car is older than 25 years you can get a Collector Plate which exempts you from emissions. The plates are valid for 5 years too. It would have cost me $100 to register it as a 1 year normal plate but was $200 for the 5 year Collector Plate. No brainer. Not sure if I even needed to get it smogged to begin with but happy that my bug will never see the inside of the evil emissions place ever again!

I do appreciate everyone's help through this process though.

Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:13 pm

does it at least run better? do you notice more pick up or crisper throttle response after the tune up?

Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:04 pm

I did notice that it SMELLS better not running so rich. I actually didn't notice it necessarily running any better or different I should say. I checked their timing this weekend and noticed that they dialed it in to right at 0 center and I think I had it advanced about 5 degrees.

I started a painting project shortly after this and waiting on my new headlight assemblies to come before getting it back on the road.