TheSamba.com :: View topic - Earl's fittings for full flow oil? What size? Tired of leaks

Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:35 am

I've been using the cheap brass fittings for 20 years on my 71 full flow 1776 Westy. I'm tired of cutting the hoses every time the clamped ends start to leak. Are "Earl's" type fitting ($$$!) all they are cracked up to be?
Is #8AN the size I need if I'm using 1/2" hose? How do you tell what size threads they have, are all #8's the same? I noticed that Aircooled has male fittings for the block and pump cover ($38.+ each!). Other suppliers are almost half this price but don't have male fittings. If I use a male/male fitting to screw the female fitting onto what type is recommended? What hose is recommended? I couldn't find a good post on this subject, although I'm sure it exists somewhere.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:36 am

AN-8 is 1/2" hose. Get 1/2 NPT to AN8 adapters for fit the case and the filter base.

Use some thread sealant paste on the 1/2 NPT but not on the AN fittings.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:16 pm

mattcfish wrote: I've been using the cheap brass fittings for 20 years on my 71 full flow 1776 Westy. I'm tired of cutting the hoses every time the clamped ends start to leak. Are "Earl's" type fitting ($$$!) all they are cracked up to be?
Is #8AN the size I need if I'm using 1/2" hose? How do you tell what size threads they have, are all #8's the same? I noticed that Aircooled has male fittings for the block and pump cover ($38.+ each!). Other suppliers are almost half this price but don't have male fittings. If I use a male/male fitting to screw the female fitting onto what type is recommended? What hose is recommended? I couldn't find a good post on this subject, although I'm sure it exists somewhere.

Then quit using clamped ends. By this I really mean are you using worm drive clamps or fuel injection style clamps? The worm drive clamps will kill the hose.
Or you can use swaged hoses on barbs. Those last about as long as braided line. Ray

Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:49 pm

To answer your question, YES the Earls fittings (AN style) are all they are cracked up to be. They seal tightly with no gaskets, o-rings or sealant required. Once you try them, you will never go back.

-David

Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:44 pm

What in the heck is the difference between a 45° fitting and an AN fitting? Besides the pretty colors that is.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:54 pm

Wildthings wrote: What in the heck is the difference between a 45° fitting and an AN fitting? Besides the pretty colors that is.
About 8 degrees :P
More contact area and better contact for the same torque too :wink:

Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:59 pm

busdaddy wrote: Wildthings wrote: What in the heck is the difference between a 45° fitting and an AN fitting? Besides the pretty colors that is.
About 8 degrees :P
More contact area and better contact for the same torque too :wink:

So they are just standard 37°JIC fittings in pretty colors?

Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:28 pm

Bluto wrote: To answer your question, YES the Earls fittings (AN style) are all they are cracked up to be. They seal tightly with no gaskets, o-rings or sealant required. Once you try them, you will never go back.

-David

Can you recommend a supplier? Is Goodyear blue the hose of choice? Other recommendations?

Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:31 pm

Glenn wrote: AN-8 is 1/2" hose. Get 1/2 NPT to AN8 adapters for fit the case and the filter base.

Use some thread sealant paste on the 1/2 NPT but not on the AN fittings.
The 1/2" NPT male/male adapters are tapered on the ends?

Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:54 pm

Wildthings wrote: busdaddy wrote: Wildthings wrote: What in the heck is the difference between a 45° fitting and an AN fitting? Besides the pretty colors that is.
About 8 degrees :P
More contact area and better contact for the same torque too :wink:

So they are just standard 37°JIC fittings in pretty colors?

Not quite, aside from the price there's a few subtle details, here's a fairly good explantion http://www.mechanicsupport.com/articleStronger.html

Matt, yes the NPT ends are tapered, hence the use of the National Pipe Taper designation.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:22 pm

I think its National Pipe Thread but whatever the name the fittings require no seal tape etc because of the taper.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:41 pm

RocketRod wrote: I think its National Pipe Thread but whatever the name the fittings require no seal tape etc because of the taper.

NPT fittings typically require the use of a sealant, either tape, paste, or a thread lock product. There are special threads that do not.

From Wikipedia:

"The taper on NPT threads allows them to form a seal when torqued as the flanks of the threads compress against each other, as opposed to parallel/straight thread fittings or compression fittings in which the threads merely hold the pieces together and do not provide the seal. However a clearance remains between the crests and roots of the threads, resulting in a leakage around this spiral. This means that NPT fittings must be made leak free with the aid of thread seal tape or a thread sealant compound. (The use of tape or sealant will also help to limit corrosion on the threads, which otherwise can make future disassembly nearly impossible.)

There is also a semi-compatible variant called National Pipe Taper Fuel (NPTF) also called Dryseal American National Standard Taper Pipe Thread, defined by ANSI B1.20.3, designed to provide a more leak-free seal without the use of teflon tape or other sealant compound. NPTF threads are the same basic shape but with crest and root heights adjusted for an interference fit, eliminating the spiral leakage path."

Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:48 pm

busdaddy wrote: Wildthings wrote: busdaddy wrote: Wildthings wrote: What in the heck is the difference between a 45° fitting and an AN fitting? Besides the pretty colors that is.
About 8 degrees :P
More contact area and better contact for the same torque too :wink:

So they are just standard 37°JIC fittings in pretty colors?

Not quite, aside from the price there's a few subtle details, here's a fairly good explantion http://www.mechanicsupport.com/articleStronger.html

I would guess that the variance in the specs for JIC and AN fittings goes back to the days of cut threads. I can't remember a single JIC fitting ever failing in the threads, though I must have seen hundreds broken in one way or another. They just don't hold up against rocks, trees, and steel all that well. Of course I have only dealt with steel fittings, maybe when you get into aluminium or more exotic light weight metals there is more apt to be thread failures.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:36 pm

I used hydraulic hose on my oil cooler setup, in 1/2" size. Never had any issues at all. Yes, I used some fancy blue refrigeration sealant on the threads, don't remember the name right now.
Hydraulic hose is pretty cheap at FleetFarm, and if I tell them its for farm use, no sales tax!! 8)
Lots of various fittings to use also. Every piece I needed.
Gotta love FleetFarm.

OK, flame away.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:18 pm

I agree with that last. AN fittings are sweet looking but a great deal of overkill for the cost (unless a class of racing requires it). If you want threaded leak proof fittings....there are a great many equal fittings for hydraulic that are a fraction of the price at hydraulic hose dealers.

Hydraulic hose fittings need to be as strong and leakproof...if not more....than AN fittings, but do not have to meet certain test requirments because they are not aircraft grade (and neither is your car).
Not trying to steer you away from AN....just saying you could drop into your nearest induystrial hose and rubber company and have your entire horizon expanded.

An example of a place like this is Texas Rubber supply on Irving Blvd in Dallas. There are a dozen places like this at least...in Ft Worth, Houston,Oklhoma city etc. (the oil belt). The hose shops in these places can make an unbelievable array of hoses of every spec from Aerospace to fleet fueling.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:36 pm

busdaddy wrote: Wildthings wrote: busdaddy wrote: Wildthings wrote: What in the heck is the difference between a 45° fitting and an AN fitting? Besides the pretty colors that is.
About 8 degrees :P
More contact area and better contact for the same torque too :wink:

So they are just standard 37°JIC fittings in pretty colors?

Not quite, aside from the price there's a few subtle details, here's a fairly good explantion http://www.mechanicsupport.com/articleStronger.html

Matt, yes the NPT ends are tapered, hence the use of the National Pipe Taper designation.

I wasn't talking about the tapered threads, but rather the cone shapep tip on the coupler. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-981508ERL/
I assume I need that kind of end to screw into the fitting, but don't I need a flat end to screw into the block, filter mount, and cooler?http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-981608ERL/

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:50 pm

The holes in the case and filter body are NPT, those are the ones you are calling flat ended, the hoses go on the end with the 37 degree flare cone. Like this:

The other link you posted would be for connecting 2 hoses (or pipes with flare fittings) together.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:06 pm

busdaddy wrote: The holes in the case and filter body are NPT, those are the ones you are calling flat ended, the hoses go on the end with the 37 degree flare cone. Like this:

The other link you posted would be for connecting 2 hoses (or pipes with flare fittings) together.

Thanks. It's all making since now.