TheSamba.com :: View topic - Instant start... isn't? 1979 CA FI bus takes several tries

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:19 pm

Greetings!

Our 1979 CA FI bus is taking a long time to start. She used to start as I understand buses should - insta-start. Nowadays though, she needs several cranks of the key to get started.

She is having a charging issue as well, but the battery is fresh- new and kept on a tender so I expect she is getting full voltage. Why might she be so reluctant to start?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:27 pm

I'd check the grounds especially the ground strap from the transmission nose to the frame. That one is usually pretty bad. It could also be in your ignition switch. The electrical side is replaceable. You could run a hot wire from your positive post on your battery to the + side of your coil. Then crank the engine and if it fires right up you should probably replace the ignition switch.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:49 pm

Orange wrote: Greetings!

Our 1979 CA FI bus is taking a long time to start. She used to start as I understand buses should - insta-start. Nowadays though, she needs several cranks of the key to get started.

She is having a charging issue as well, but the battery is fresh- new and kept on a tender so I expect she is getting full voltage. Why might she be so reluctant to start?
so are you saying that the starter takes several tries of the key before the starter motor turns, or are you saying the starter turns fine, it's just it takes several sessions of running the starter motor before the engine actually fires to life?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:27 pm

silverside61 wrote: Orange wrote: Greetings!

Our 1979 CA FI bus is taking a long time to start. She used to start as I understand buses should - insta-start. Nowadays though, she needs several cranks of the key to get started.

She is having a charging issue as well, but the battery is fresh- new and kept on a tender so I expect she is getting full voltage. Why might she be so reluctant to start?
so are you saying that the starter takes several tries of the key before the starter motor turns, or are you saying the starter turns fine, it's just it takes several sessions of running the starter motor before the engine actually fires to life?

Sorry - the starter turns just fine. It is taking several attempts at starting to get the engine to fire up.

Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:34 pm

have you checked your fuel pressure. as in, does it bleed down, and take some cranking for the fuel pump to be run enough to get the pressure up to where it needs to be?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:37 pm

Something simple to try too is wiggle the key around while cranking and see if that makes it fire up. I had that problem in my Jetta and wound up replacing the switch.

Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:17 am

Orange wrote: silverside61 wrote: Orange wrote: Greetings!

Our 1979 CA FI bus is taking a long time to start. She used to start as I understand buses should - insta-start. Nowadays though, she needs several cranks of the key to get started.

She is having a charging issue as well, but the battery is fresh- new and kept on a tender so I expect she is getting full voltage. Why might she be so reluctant to start?
so are you saying that the starter takes several tries of the key before the starter motor turns, or are you saying the starter turns fine, it's just it takes several sessions of running the starter motor before the engine actually fires to life?

Sorry - the starter turns just fine. It is taking several attempts at starting to get the engine to fire up.

See that the little red/white wire is plugged into the correct spade terminal on the starter solenoid and that it gets 12 volts during cranking only. . . . it turns on the cold start valve via double relay 86A buses over to 86 and off to the cold start valve. This cold start valve sprays barely a couple of seconds during cranking and is shut off either by its own thermo-time switch or the instant you release the key.
Colin

Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:28 am

Okay, you have a California bus, but where are you located and under what conditions is it not starting. What temps are you starting her at? Does she start well cold and then not restart hot? Vice versa? Did the starting problem occur right after some work was done on her? Has she had a tune up recently? Old plugs, wires, coil etc don't lend themselves to easy starting.

Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:20 am

I have a 77 passenger bus with 2.0L FI, automatic. Last several weeks I was trying to figure out the start up problem which is a long cranking time, takes abut 30 second cranking, to stat the engine. I did adjusted Valve gap, RPM to 950, Point gap, and timmig. I also replaced most of vacuum hoses. My vacuum hoses were badly needed to replace. After that It took about 15 second to start up. Then I saw this thread. I wiggled the ignition key during cranking, then the engine started in a few seconds. My garage temperature was about 25 ~30degree (I live in Michigan). My start up mistery may be solved. I'll follow Aerotech's several suggested actions to eliminate potencial other problems.

So How difficult to replace the electrical part of the ignition? It appear to be tightly packed area.
I'd appreciate if you could provide us the procedures.
Thanks for bringing up this question.
Aki

Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:37 am

ytsuji wrote: I have a 77 passenger bus with 2.0L FI, automatic. Last several weeks I was trying to figure out the start up problem which is a long cranking time, takes abut 30 second cranking, to stat the engine. I did adjusted Valve gap, RPM to 950, Point gap, and timmig. I also replaced most of vacuum hoses. My vacuum hoses were badly needed to replace. After that It took about 15 second to start up. Then I saw this thread. I wiggled the ignition key during cranking, then the engine started in a few seconds. My garage temperature was about 25 ~30degree (I live in Michigan). My start up mistery may be solved. I'll follow Aerotech's several suggested actions to eliminate potencial other problems.

So How difficult to replace the electrical part of the ignition? It appear to be tightly packed area.
I'd appreciate if you could provide us the procedures.
Thanks for bringing up this question.
Aki

It's not too bad really. I'll try to do this from memory. The set screw lives where you see the sheet metal screw someone used once.

1) Looking up under the steering wheel you'll find four large (6mm) philips head screws (bolts) that hold the steering column to the dash. Remove these and the column will tilt aft.

2) Disconnect the battery

3) Turn the key to the "on" position.

4) Get your head down there by the pedals and look up under the steering wheel at the lock housing. You're looking for a tiny hole that has a very small set screw in it. You'll need a jewelers screw driver (straight slot) to go up in there and remove that set screw.

5) Once removed you should be able to pull the electrical side of the switch out of the housing.

6) Installation is the reverse. The wires are color coded so either find a disconnect or butt splice the new wires in place. It's best to buy the new switch first so you know what to look for. Also, there are different qualities of switches out there and I recommend buying the good one.

Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 pm

[quote="aeromech"] ytsuji wrote: I have a 77 passenger bus with 2.0L FI, automatic. Last several weeks I was trying to figure out the start up problem which is a long cranking time, takes abut 30 second cranking, to stat the engine. I did adjusted Valve gap, RPM to 950, Point gap, and timmig. I also replaced most of vacuum hoses. My vacuum hoses were badly needed to replace. After that It took about 15 second to start up. Then I saw this thread. I wiggled the ignition key during cranking, then the engine started in a few seconds. My garage temperature was about 25 ~30degree (I live in Michigan). My start up mistery may be solved. I'll follow Aerotech's several suggested actions to eliminate potencial other problems.

So How difficult to replace the electrical part of the ignition? It appear to be tightly packed area.
I'd appreciate if you could provide us the procedures.
Thanks for bringing up this question.
Aki

The '77 switch is completely different. It's probably more similar to the Jetta switch than the early bay switch.

The best way to do it is to follow the Bentley manual.

I haven't done one in a long time but as I recall it basically consists of.
-Pulling the connector off which is under the switch.
-Removing the screw from the flange on the electrical part of the switch.
-Wiggle the old switch out.
-Reverse procedure to get the new switch in.
But like I said, it's been a long time.

Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:41 pm

"The '77 switch is completely different. It's probably more similar to the Jetta switch than the early bay switch."

If that's the case then it would make the job that much easier. I did a Vangon and it was a piece of cake.