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Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:23 pm

O.k. so I think my Rear Main Seal and or perhaps the Front Seal are shot.

I want to start with the Rear Main Seal and can not find any walk through for this procedure.

I am asking you V.W. Scientistas, how do I do this job?

Can anyone show me a walk through of any kind or offer a page showing exactly how this is done? I believe I have all the tools and time and ballz.

I just don't know where to start. I know that this is a big job and wish to tackle it with the help of my Samba friends.

Any guidance would be oh so appreciated. Yes I do have a Bentley.

Thank you so much in advance,

J.C.

Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:45 pm

It's just a seal. 95% of the work is getting to it. It will pop out like any other seal and install like any other seal of similar size. I posted to this thread before how I drive them in:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4324880

I am sure Ratwell will have something as well.

Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:11 pm

Bob Donald's (RIP) at Boston Engine has a video on his site that covers this very well. Wildthings is right - replacing the seal is actually easy but its a bitcharoonie getting there.

However, it might not just pop out. Mine was practically welded into the case and I had to carefully slice it out with an Exacto blade.

Here's some photos I took when I did mine as part of a rebuild:

This is an improvised thing to hold my flex-plate. If you don't have an auto, then I don't know what you'll do.

If you are putting in a new seal, you may need to replace either the flex-plate or flywheel with a new one in case you have a grooved sealing surface. Mine had a nasty groove (which is also my favorite Prince album):

Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:14 pm

You mean front main seal.

Front is front.

Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:10 pm

Glenn wrote: You mean front main seal.

Front is front.

The seal behind the flywheel is the rear main seal on all engines. The nomenclature doesn't change because someone swaps an engine from a 914 to a bus. Best to refer to it as the flywheel seal to eliminate confusion though.

Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:12 pm

Call it the flywheel seal, but its not the rear main. It doesn't matter what the Cheby people call it.

Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:16 pm

Glenn wrote: Call it the flywheel seal, but its not the rear main. It doesn't matter what the Cheby people call it.

No but SAE call the end of the engine which bolts to the load the REAR of the engine. That matters.

Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:18 pm

Wildthings wrote: Glenn wrote: Call it the flywheel seal, but its not the rear main. It doesn't matter what the Cheby people call it.

No but SAE call the end of the engine which bolts to the load the REAR of the engine. That matters.
I guess they never worked on a rear engine car.

So when you put a Type 1 engine in a airplane and the propeller is mounted to the crank snout,, is that the front or the rear of the engine?

Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:01 pm

Quote: So when you put a Type 1 engine in a airplane and the propeller is mounted to the crank snout,, is that the front or the rear of the engine? "Discuss 3rd/4th/5th generation Buses" content?
They are often referred to as a rear main seal.

Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:05 pm

What about when a TDI that is mounted sideways in a Jetta goes into a vanagon? I know I ordered a rear main seal for the TDI in my vanagon to make the oil leak behind the flywheel stop :wink:

Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:56 am

Meta-nonsense. Anyone going to help the OP?

VanWilder, it's not clear whether you need advice with the entire procedure start to finish, as in transmission R&R included, or just dealing with the flywheel/seal package once you've dug in. Rather than describe the whole shebang, care to clarify?

You should make clear which year/model you're delaing with and whether it's an autotrans or manual.

To get warmed up, here are a couple threads that get into some of the ins and outs of the seal install itself, absent directions on the trans R&R:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=335247

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=371932

There is also a very helpful video made by our late friend Boston Bob Donalds where he demonstrates the flywheel/seal R&R on an engine on the bench:

http://www.bostig.com/files/bostonbob&bostig-proper_wbxflywheel_install.wmv

You should pore over the sections in Bentley that cover transmission R&R, that will give you a good overview of that part of the process, and the crankcase/crankshaft chapter gives some specs and a detailed endplay-checking procedure.

Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:48 pm

Thank you everyone for your input.

This is an 83" Vanagon GL Manual Transmission.

Yes I am seeking a start to finish solution in terms of dropping the Tranny and replacing the seal.

I will check the links that you have posted and see if they will get me through. From the info given here already I might have enough to get me through.

I am not starting this job for a couple of weeks and now I will do my reading to prepare.

Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:56 pm

tencentlife wrote: Anyone going to help the OP?
Hey, I took a shot at it.

Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:53 pm

And great shot you did Dep,, thank you very much... I watched the video on Bob's seal replacement at Bostig. How critical is the flywheel calibration? I don't have that measuring device or the flywheel lock for that matter, the rest looks fairly good to go...

Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:29 pm

VanWilder wrote: How critical is the flywheel calibration?
Pretty damn important. Especially considering that once you have the engine out, you are in the best possible position to take care if this.

Also, in some cases, a mainseal leak can be caused by too much play. Since I think you said you have a leak at the front and the back, this might be the case with you. Might. Maybe. Not definitely.

VanWilder wrote: I don't have that measuring device or the flywheel lock for that matter, the rest looks fairly good to go...
The flywheel lock can be purchased literally anywhere that sells VW parts.

http://driverswarehouse.com/details.jsp?partnumber=UN1201100

As for the dial gauge and mount, they're fairly cheap at Harbor Freight.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=623
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=5645

You can also measure the end-play with feeler gauges. There's even a VW-tool that will help you with this job. I got my shims at Bus-Boys abut I think you can get them at just about any VW parts house but you'll have to ask for them specifically. Even some of the regular parts-places carry shims.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=266554&highlight=dial+feeler+shim

Read all the posts here on the subject - even in the air-cooled forums since the job is roughly the same. It's actually fairly easy - the Boston Bob video really shows it very clearly. I was really, really sweating this part of my rebuild last year but it was okay.

Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:31 pm

syncrodoka wrote: They are often referred to as a rear main seal.
Most vendors refer to them as the "flywheel seal" and i'm OK with that terminology. But they are not the FRONT.

German Supply wrote: Crankshaft Seal - Flywheel End. Also called the Main Seal. We do not call this the "Rear Main Seal" because it is on the FRONT of the engine, however, many people refer to this part as the Rear Main Seal. Viton. Made by Reinze.

Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:49 pm

tencentlife wrote: Meta-nonsense.
tencentlife wrote: Front, rear, left, right, liberal, conservative; longstanding convention has the flywheel seal called the rear main seal because most engines, front or rear-mounted, present their pulley end to the casual observer, and in most cars that faces front.

:wink:

Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:03 pm

I'm glad that the OP is getting good information to fix the problem.

GoWesty- Flywheel or "Rear Main" Seal Story- http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=535

Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:27 pm

You guys are the best,, I don't care what any of you guys say about each other.

I get all the tech info I need and a great chuckle at the same time!

Thank you all one again....

I do have another question, I don't have to pull the engine right? I can just drop the Tranny?

Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:59 pm

VanWilder wrote: can just drop the Tranny?

I honestly don't know. It seems to me that although taking the engine out is a mess, the actual task of replacing the seal and setting the play would be a lot easier with the engine out.