TheSamba.com :: View topic - Slow turning motor...I have checked everything...I think?

Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:48 am

Have a 74 Bus.. heads were jacked up so I went to Russ's vw wrecking in socal...purchased a 78 2litre...It has GEX rebuild stickers on it...compression was good..nice motor....it was mated to AT..so I put my old fly wheel on it ..checked the end play and everything looked good..put it in and when I go to start ..it acts like a low batterey..pulled and tested..it was good...tried with different good battery same slow turnover.....bought a new starter and cylinoid...checked voltage pos to neg while cranking 11V... check neg to trans while cranking no voltage..check pos to starter no voltage..I have followed all advise in the forum..no luck...ive cleaned all connections even added additional trans strap....thinking of pulling the motor :(
any words of wisdom.... if I do pull how easy or hard should this motor turn..Thanks for taking the time D

Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:15 am

Before I pulled the motor, I would invest in a new battery to starter cable and a new battery to ground cable.

Then I would pull the spark plugs and see if it will tun over well.

It is a GEX engine after all. :shock:

Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:18 am

What he said.

That big fat cable may look good, but iff all your other connections look good, that one should be next for scrutiny.

Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:11 pm

How hard is it to turn the engine over by hand? You should feel compression as you approach TDC, but there shouldn't be much of any other resistance. With the spark plugs out it should be very easy to turn, just a little resistance from the cam and even less from the oil pump and bearings.

Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:13 pm

WildThings wrote: Quote: How hard is it to turn the engine over by hand? You should feel compression as you approach TDC, but there shouldn't be much of any other resistance. With the spark plugs out it should be very easy to turn, just a little resistance from the cam and even less from the oil pump and bearings.

I think this is the path I would follow next.

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:29 pm

Did you check the starter bushing in the bell housing, if it is worn the support shaft rides up causing an angle in the meshing of the gear to the flywheel, drags down the starter.

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:29 pm

I will try the new pos and neg cable...should I be able to turn the motor with the plugs out from the from the front pulley?

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:59 pm

Quote: should I be able to turn the motor with the plugs out from the from the front pulley?

YES!!, an engine with no spark plugs shows only its internal resistance to turn, if something between the front pulley and the transaxle shaft is stuck its better by all means to get a feel of it by hand turning the engine before than trying to get it started. I don´t think its the case but who knows? could be your flywheel is eating its way trough the bell housing and youre more worried about some cables and a battery

Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:12 pm

You can either turn the engine using a wrench on the alternator pulley or you can remove the screen over the fan and just turn the fan by hand. With the plugs in you should feel compression and it will be difficult to turn the engine, but with the plugs out it should turn fairly easily.

Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:49 pm

I can not turn the engine with or without the plugs in... from the front pulley.....Im going to pull the motor and investigate...maybe I didnt get the oil seal in all the way...I dont know....something has bound the engine up is the only explaination I can see. Thanks for the help I appreciate it.

Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:40 pm

Sounds like you may have put the fan nut pulley in wrong. Engine barely turns by hand, almost impossible to turn by putting 13mm socket on fan pulley bolt. I only mention this because it happened to me once. :oops:

Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:52 am

So you took off a flexplate and installed a flywheel? Did you install a pilot bearing in the crankshaft first? Just spitballin'!

Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:46 am

Thanks for spit ballin!!! Crap..I think you could be on to something..I will pull it this weekend and hopefully solve the problem...if there is not a pilot bearing in there.. would that be consistant with my symptoms???

Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:51 am

Dcamperman wrote: Thanks for spit ballin!!! Crap..I think you could be on to something..I will pull it this weekend and hopefully solve the problem...if there is not a pilot bearing in there.. would that be consistant with my symptoms???

Definitely could be the problem. Auto's don't have pilot bearings but the recess is there. Install a pilot bearing and grease it up. This should fix the starting issue. Peace!

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:29 pm

Pulled the motor....wouldnt turn over by hand with the plugs out....checked for end play...there was none..... rotated motor...now I have end play....somehow my flywheel is out of alignment???pulled it apart and put the FLy wheel back several times...it seems to rock around as you bOLT it up...used a cross tighting method....so I checked my shims took one out just to see what would happen....using end play tool....006 almost all the way around..until the the last quarter turn I have almost no end play...took the fly wheel off and using a nut and tourque wrench turned motor...as it came up on TDC...the crank shaft sucked back into the motor about quarted inch...is that normal with the fly wheel off??? should I have my flywheel end surfaced...or is there a problem with this motor?..Thanks again..you guys are top notch!!

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:31 pm

I forgot to mention the pilot bearing was in there

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:40 pm

the dist gear will move the crank in and out so it is not wise to turn it much with the flywheel off as it can mess up the brass gear.

Try it with one shim and see how much freeplay there is. See if the guy just chose the wrong shims.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:14 pm

ok I put just one shim in ...the end play was .034..now..as I turned the motor and left the feeler gauge in the tool...it got so tight on the feeler guage....that the motor will not turn....so what does all this mean???

Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:48 pm

are the valves opening and closing? i only ask this because I once broke a camshaft, and the way it sheared was right in the middle, and it was almost a straight line. at a slight angle. I could turn the engine over, but something didnt feel right. it would bind a bit during part of the rotation. when i went to set the valves, i noticed only the 2 & 4 were moving. the 1&3 were not. this was a type 1 engine, but i just thought i would mention it, as your results are peculiar as well.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:46 pm

Im getting compression at every cylinder...dont think the cam is broken...but I did change out Distributors...mine had a mechanical advance....the one that came on it was vaccume...maybe its not the right one for this motor?....now this is driving me crazey...could that cause my end play to be changing as I rotate the motor????????...the other motor was the same year....GE...which is a 78 from the info I have. any suggestions?