TheSamba.com :: View topic - Another suspension question (with photos)

Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:11 pm

Hi,

First, thanks to Ian and everyone who has helped me with my suspension so far.

Second, I could use some more advice. I had some unexpected problems when I took my car -- with its completely rebuilt front end -- in for an an alignment. The frame / alignment shop told me that they couldn't align my front end unless I re-indexed the front torsion bars. They said that the passenger side has such so much positive camber and was so much higher than the driver's side that they couldn't do anything . .

Question 1: Is there a way to re index the front?

When I cleaned and greased the torsion leaves it seemed pretty idiot-proof: the leaves only went in one way, if you got it wrong, the grub screws wouldn't line up . . .

Of course I could have made a mistake -- if so how could I check and/or correct it?

Question 2: Could my re-indexing of the rear torsion bars be causing the problems with the front suspension?

When I first got the car the the passenger side sat just about 2.5 inches higher than the front. I had to put the passenger side at 25 something degrees and the passenger side at 19.0 to get it level.

I suspect that it is the latter and that the frame is bent (see the photo). The frame shop wants 50 dollars to take a look.

Question 3: Should I fix the frame? Take it to another shop? Just use DIY alignment? Or. . .

Notice the difference in where the tailpipes sit -- the muffler is straight but the engine itself is tilted (also, the engine seal doesn't fit):

Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:42 pm

Your car has a ball joint front end, judging from the '67 and later reverse lights and '68 and later rear view mirror. Camber can be adjusted by using the eccentric that fits around the upper ball joint:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-131-498-319-KIT

Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:10 pm

Sactojesse --

Thanks -- that's what I thought the alignment place was going to do, adjust the camber using those adjusters but they seem to believe that the torsion arms are sitting at the wrong angle.

Do you believe that they are wrong and that I should seek out a vw - friendly alignment shop?

Could incorrect camber cause the front to sit higher?

I put those back (notch pointing toward front) as close as I could where they were originally but I'm sure that they are off . . .

thanks again,

Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:49 pm

My car sits at a similar slope to yours but I've never discovered why.

Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:16 pm

danielsan wrote: Could incorrect camber cause the front to sit higher
If there's enough positive camber to make it so the tire isn't sitting squarely on the ground. However, there may be something else at play. I'd suggest getting the camber set back to stock specs and then re-evaluating your ride height issue. There's only one possible way for the torsion arms to fit on the torsion leaves, so re-indexing isn't an option like it is in the rear.

Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:16 pm

sactojesse wrote:
There's only one possible way for the torsion arms to fit on the torsion leaves, so re-indexing isn't an option like it is in the rear.

That what is seemed like -- I could see how you could index the leaves but it never hurts to ask :)

It concerns me some that this shop was using this terminology. I'll take your advice and see if I can get get it any closer to stock before taking it elsewhere.

Can anyone recommend a vw friendly alignment shop in the reno / tahoe area?

Thanks again, dan

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:03 am

First check the rear. The torsion housing to the ground should be the same on both sides. Often it is easy to see in the rear wheel wells, it should be the same fender edge to rim distance on both sides. If not the rear torsions need to be re indexed. Now to the front..... the offset camber adjusters should be enough to get camber and caster to stock. if not, 'probably' your front trailing arms are a bit bent (happens from hitting gutters). or the front beam is bent. A bent beam usually can be seen with the eye under the car.
On a few cars the engine doesn't sit 'square' but that is rear horns not suspension.
Bent front trailing arms can be 'adjusted' back to stock with a big press, and the VW gauge to measure. some times it's easier to find better arms.
Ian G

Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:13 am

Yea what Ian said above.

You also need to find another shop since that shop you took the Ghia to knows nothing about type 1 VWs - since they told you to adjust the Front torsion bars. :roll:

Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:37 pm

Thanks again to Ian and everyone for the help.

I got the camber as close as I could using a level and took it back to the shop. I decided to take my manual with me and left it with them -- they were able to get the car aligned.

The rear torsions are within millimeters of each other -- the front of the car is sits a little higher on the driver's side but I suspect that will change over time.

The tilt is still there but I'll try and borrow some of boat builder's zen and just say that it is one of the car's quirks :)

Oh and Sactojesse was right about the year -- it's a 69.5

Thanks to your help my driver is now 80% complete. Cheers.