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Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:14 pm

Hey all,

tried searching but no luck. could someone direct me to a good thread on Cutting and turning the front beam. I am rebuilding the front end of my 68 and may concider doing the mod for a bit more lift..if theres not too much involved.

Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:59 pm

uh...........what?

Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:20 pm

55veedub wrote: Hey all,

tried searching but no luck. could someone direct me to a good thread on flipping beams. I am rebuilding the front end of my 68 and may concider doing the mod for a bit more lift..if theres not too much involved.

it is swing and i know about the camber...hmmm..

I think you might mean cut and turn, that's for the front beam. To lift the rear you can reindex the torsion bars. I don't know too much about how to do these, but I hope that helps clear some things up so you can find what you're looking for.

Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:40 pm

Barentine wrote: 55veedub wrote: Hey all,

tried searching but no luck. could someone direct me to a good thread on flipping beams. I am rebuilding the front end of my 68 and may concider doing the mod for a bit more lift..if theres not too much involved.

it is swing and i know about the camber...hmmm..

I think you might mean cut and turn, that's for the front beam. To lift the rear you can reindex the torsion bars. I don't know too much about how to do these, but I hope that helps clear some things up so you can find what you're looking for.

yes thats exactly what i would like to know. I wasnt sure whats involved in doing this and am just trying to find a tutorial or something to help me decide if i want to do this while i have the beam apart.

also its for a 68 bug which is swing axle so i can only index the bars so much before the rear wheels toe in.

at this time ii really dont want to convert it to IRS.

Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:04 pm

I wouldnt cut and turn the beam.It will ride real stiff.You can get lifted spindles and have a nice ride and travel off road.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:18 pm

55veedub wrote:

yes thats exactly what i would like to know. I wasnt sure whats involved in doing this and am just trying to find a tutorial or something to help me decide if i want to do this while i have the beam apart.

also its for a 68 bug which is swing axle so i can only index the bars so much before the rear wheels toe in.

at this time ii really dont want to convert it to IRS.

You've got something like a mixed metaphor going on here. Don't worry, my boss used to do it all the time. "Don't jump my bones!", "I don't want to be a backdoor driver, but..." so maybe I can help clear up some of the head-shaking that might leave some of the better wrenches out of this conversation:

Front End:
Your front beam has nothing to do with the swing-axle design. Whether you have link-pin (king-pin) or a ball-joint front end it is not indexed; you cut and turn it which I think has the consensus of being the easy/cheap/good way of getting some height in the front end. There are better ways to get height and different ways that get you height and travel but they are all much more expensive or much crappier. I can't remember but I think '68 has the ball-joint front end. From what I understand there is no way to get more travel out of one of those beams*, it's simply a matter of what the ball-joints will handle and different ball-joints handle angles differently (some are better, some are worse). All of this is covered in depth if you go to the top of this forum and look for the thing that says "Sticky: FAQ, Information, References, PLEASE READ FIRST"

As for the rear suspension, there is a topic for that, too, but IT is the thing that you index and has camber issues.

Now if you are mentioning them both because you are making some nebulous reference to a relationship that seems obvious to you, we may need some more clarification. Are you worried about making sure it rides level and so, because you are turning the front end you don't know how much you can turn it before you out raise the rear end? A lot of this stuff, especially with cars that are all 40 years old is hit and miss. You're just gonna have to do it and see. There is no formula because there's no way to know how wore out your torsion bars and leaves are. You just kinda got to see and then mess some more.

Now then, I'm a total n00b. I have probably said things that are wrong but this is my understanding. Take it for what it is worth.

*cheaply, without moving the beam forward or something else that seems out of the scope of the question.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:27 pm

Haha, ok well aparently i sounded like a total doof by asking my question so let me clarify.

I have a 68. I want to get some lift out of it without spending a bunch of money.

FRONT:
I know that i could cut and turn the beam where i read up on the process here. http://sandlizrd.baja.org/frntlift.htm Now, if i wanted to do this mod, would it be better done on a ball joint or king and link?

REAR:
It is a 68 so it does have swing axle. I know i can reindex the torsion bars but i also know what too much will cause the rear wheels to toe in. I dont have the funds right now to change it to IRS so i want to do what i can with what i have.
Im trying to find a tutorial on reindexing swingaxles, hopefully with photos.

Hope this clarifys things.

mike

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:49 pm

Jeff Hibbard wrote the bible and because of when he wrote it he focused on the swing-axle cars. Can't recommend his book enough. Pictures and recommended procedure.

http://www.amazon.com/Baja-Bugs-Buggies-Jeff-Hibbard/dp/0895861860

As for the front, the Link-pin and Ball-Joint front end are not interchangeable. Run what's on it until you are ready to spend some money, until then, turn what you have. Check out the Class 11's for how it is done by the guys who race stock VW's. http://www.class11coalition.com/

Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:08 pm

I think im going to buy that book.

I found this:

http://vw.zenseeker.net/Wheels-TorsionBars.htm

does anyone have detailed photos of this. is it easy? Sort of hard to picture if youve never done it before. Especially the inner splines and outer splines....

Offroad preload recommendations:

4-8° greater than stock
Swing axle bottom edge of the spring plate is covering half of the bolt hole
IRS 70 on the spring plate is even with the bottom of the bolt hole

Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:14 pm

would a bean that has been cut and turned need to have longer shock absorbers than the stock ones? or is there really not enough lift to effect them.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:35 pm

55veedub wrote: I think im going to buy that book.

I found this:

http://vw.zenseeker.net/Wheels-TorsionBars.htm

does anyone have detailed photos of this. is it easy? Sort of hard to picture if youve never done it before. Especially the inner splines and outer splines....

Offroad preload recommendations:

4-8° greater than stock
Swing axle bottom edge of the spring plate is covering half of the bolt hole
IRS 70 on the spring plate is even with the bottom of the bolt hole

I would suggest BOTH of these: Books To Buy The Idiot's guide is about perfect as a step by step how-to for your bug.

As far as indexing your rear, there are a lot of considerations other than height that you need to be careful of. I've been researching the IRS so my main concern is out angling the CV's but you are going to get into serious camber issues with your swing axle if not done conservatively. I'm sure there are other issues as well. The Hibbard book above does a very nice job of showing how this is done, and talks about the safety required as well (IE Chain your suspension to a jack and so-forth).

Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:51 pm

Im really looking forward to reading the baja bugs and buggies book. I ordered it at lunch, should be here in a day or so. Cant wait to start doing some mods.

Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:09 pm

I am reading in the book that 1/8" to 1/4" is whats suggested to cut and turn the beam.

Any suggestions on which measurement to go with? Its on a 68.

thanks,
mike

Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:21 pm

I suggest you spend just a little more $ & buy some adjusters. then you can dial it up or down to suit your tastes.

Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:45 pm

I think it will depend on how much load you intend to have. i have adjusters of which one broke recently and i welded in place as a semi permanent fix ..my adjusters are all the way up which look like at least a 1/4 " movement or more and it could even be stiffer. I like it to ride well when it gets loaded up with a lot of gear and a passenger. plus the full body with spare in the front gives me a little different ride then a glass baja

Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:52 pm

Ive heard of the adjustable ones breaking after a while or rough use. So would 1/4" be the max of the adjustable ones (depending how they are welded in ofcourse).

How much lift does that give?

Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:15 pm

Those wou have cut and turned their beam. How much did you turn it by?

thanks