TheSamba.com :: View topic - Shredded air hose, then v belt snapped, then overheated...

Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:34 pm

Dear The Samba specialists. You have helped me out of many a pickle before and I'm now referring to you again as my first port of call...

My wife and I own a 1977 1600 petrol bay window van. We live in North Spain where people have hardly ever seen these sort of vans. Still, a friendly local mechanic recently gave the van a service which included fitting a new crankshaft pulley and v belt. We were all set, ready to go.

Yesterday we were happily driving when we heard a crazy sound. We pulled over and the metal 'ribbed' air hose (as you look at the engine the right of the two similar hoses) had shredded. It looks like it came loose and blew off. We carried on driving as I firgured it wouldn't hurt for a few miles until we found a garage that could sell us a spare. 5 minutes later another crazy noise, this time the 'new' v-belt. I phoned the mechanic who assured us it would be fine to drive as it only charges the battery via the alternator. Now, I don't know much about mechanics but I always thought it was a fan belt that drove the fan. Anyway, we took his advice and carried on. All fine for about 5 minutes until we pull off the motorway at the toll. while we're sat at the toll booth (1 minute with engine ticking over) smoke started to seep out of the side panel vents and into the van through the heat vents. We pulled over quick, opened the engine lid and got the fire extinguisher ready. Thankfully we didn't need it and the engine cooled down. A tow truck towed us home. The van still starts and can drive but I really don't want that to happen again and I need to hear the expert opinion, hence this long message. Have we done incurable damage to the van, or can we simply fit a new air hose and a new v belt?

We've heard all kinds of crazy stories about wrecking engines in this scenario. Clarification in really simple English as to what the belt does too would be a realy blessing. I am ashamedly thick when it comes to mechanics and probably shouldn't be wasting your time with ignorant queries, but we just want to get our van fixed and I can't trust the mechanics here as what they told me doesn't fit with what I've learnt/read.

Help! Many thanks.
Joe

Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:40 pm

your mechanic should be ashamed of himself for giving you such false information. you were right. it is a FAN belt. very critical on an air cooled automobile. it is good that you were in a place where you were able to turn it off just as soon as you did. you may have done some damage, but it would be hard to tell without checking it out. I would feel your mechanic is absolutely to blame, and DO NOT let him touch that bay again. it is clearly obvious that he has absolutely no understanding of what he was doing.

clarification of what the belt does?: it turns the alternator to generate electricity, BUT on the other end of that alternator is the fan which is the entire cooling system for the engine. so if the fan belt breaks, the fan does not turn, and the engine burns up.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:41 pm

Since you have the 1600 engine, the V-belt spins the fan and cools the engine. Do not go back to the mechanic for any service. Have someone put a new fan belt on and adjust it properly so it doesn't snap this time.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:52 pm

maximan1 wrote: Since you have the 1600 engine, the V-belt spins the fan and cools the engine. Do not go back to the mechanic for any service. Have someone put a new fan belt on and adjust it properly so it doesn't snap this time.

You mean after he get's the mechanic who told him that and fitted the V belt last pay's for his NEW ENGINE right? :?

IMHO he needs more than just fitting a new belt and a hose.... overheat like that needs attention right away and it's very likely it did hurt the engine.

However you need to find a mechanic who does know WTF he's doing/working on to figure that out for sure not the one you just went too!

Here are a few more stories of this happening... there are plenty out there.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286599&highlight=belt+broke

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=183680&highlight=belt+broke

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=174196&highlight=belt+broke

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76892&highlight=belt+broke

Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:56 pm

Thank you maximan for your quick reply. I still have the old v belt that didn't look bad at all. Would it be worth putting that back on?

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:08 pm

You need to read those threads about how to diagonose the results of a massive overheating event. I think you cooked it.

This just sounds bad.

If you have a new spare engine waiting for you in the UK, you may want to call someone and have it sent down to you.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:12 pm

Quote: Thank you maximan for your quick reply. I still have the old v belt that didn't look bad at all. Would it be worth putting that back on?

if it is the one taken off by him MAYBE. Some mechanics will take a shortcut and use a screwdriver to pop them off. It breaks the back on the belt and they fail thereafter. A good rule of thumb on any VW is to carry a spare belt with you and the tools to install it. In a pinch one of your wife's panty hose legs can be used as an emergency fan belt. If she doesn't want to give up a good pair you can buy the cheapest ones at the store, cut off one of the sides and tie and knot it, cut off the excess and away you go.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:22 pm

wow, thank you so much guys for all your advice.
There is a garage in the village I live in that sees to old vehicles. They have numerous classics on show. I will tow it with a tow rope to them on monday to diagnose the engine. I trust them even if they will be VERY expensive, it could be less expensive than buying a new engine!

Oh my goodness. The joys of owning a old van.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:36 pm

info@joseba.co.uk wrote: wow, thank you so much guys for all your advice.
There is a garage in the village I live in that sees to old vehicles. They have numerous classics on show. I will tow it with a tow rope to them on monday to diagnose the engine. I trust them even if they will be VERY expensive, it could be less expensive than buying a new engine!

Oh my goodness. The joys of owning a old van.

After replacing the belt, I would ask them to perform a valve adjustment, possibly retorque the heads, and then run a compression check. Might be a good idea to change the oil as well. If the heads are severely damaged it will show up in the compression check.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:38 pm

taking it to someone who does not specialize in air cooled VW engines can be a gamble i would not risk...

if i were you i would find the closest air cooled repair shop and have it towed to them via a flatbed tow truck, if towing it yourself is not an option due to distance constraints.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:48 pm

There are no air cooled specialists in North Spain - at least that I know of.
I'll check to see if the local classic car garage specialists know about air cooled engines. Towing using a rope is illegal in France/Spain (not in UK). Not sure about USA but here if I'm taking it out of the village we'll have for a tow.

I'm going to have words with the mechanic too that told us it would be fine to drive. It's so frustrating when you spend money on 'professional' service in good faith that they know about engines. Some guys in the village have VW beetles and they recommended this mechanic to me.

Thanks for the advice on the valves, cylinders and compression checks. I just need to work out how to say all that in Spanish (or Basque!!).

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:49 pm

Never never never drive without the belt on a type 1. I would kick that mechanics ass who told you that, seriously. I guess it is just another example that you are your best mechanic.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:54 pm

i would alert your friend in the village who recommended them to you, because he obviously does not know enough about the VW engine to be working on them.

maybe its time you and the other local VW guy in your village start to get manuals and help each other work on your own cars... its always more fun when someone is there with you. and as caleb said before me.....

you are always your best mechanic. no one will put the love and care into YOUR car as much as YOU will.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:09 pm

Wow, lesson learned the hard way :?

Put the other belt on and see how it runs, you can't make things much worse now. Some people have horseshoes up thier a$$ and get lucky. At the least do a valve adjustment ASAP, it may be weak and smoke a bit but it should still run and drive if it didn't sieze.

I suspect the hose got knocked off by the shredding belt, check the pulleys for alignment when you get the belt back on.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:40 pm

Sounds like that bogus mechanic owes you a lot. Any and all expenses incured and maybe a new engine.
But to be realistic it is all up to you. Every Bay owner should carry a spare belt and some other critical parts. Get an original owners manual to find out the basics needed to drive one and own one. And as mentioned absolutely get a service manual.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:33 pm

I think I will chime in, flame away if appropriate. OP says the mechanic replaced the pulley. I seem to remember reading here that it is important to have the correct pulley; if not, and not properly installed, can cause havoc with the belt. Don't ask me to list my sources,; I read so much stuff here, it is impossible for me to catalog it all. A shredding belt could tear up the the 'ribbed' heater hose. Back to the story, loose the mechanic, get new belt, properly installed, afterwards, idle for a while and watch how it behaves. .02

Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:10 am

The air hose came loos and shredded before the belt snapped. I suspect that the hose got mangled with the fan belt and must have slightly torn it or at least weakened the belt so that it snapped after 5 miles.

The engine starts and turns over so surely it can't be seized?
I'm going to tow it (illegally) first thing on monday morning to another garage. As happy and friendly as the mechanic is, I don't think he's like to pay for a reconditioned engine. Besides, I think I'd rather take it elsewhere now.

I'll talk to the other VW owners in the village (only two) and see if they know of anyone else.

All new parts except for the fan belt are vw parts sourced from www.justkampers.com. the belt was one that mechanic bought from a local parts shop. Looking on the jk website there are slighlty different sized belts for engines with alternators/dynamos. I don't even know which I have! I'm assuming alternator.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:15 am

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Could someone help me work out if I have an alternator or a dynamo?
Please forgive my ignorance.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:34 am

I've just arranged with a GOOD mechanic that specialises in old cars to check over the engine. he told me that only a month ago he THREW OUT a 1600 engine from a Karmann Ghia!!!! He'd had it in his garage for two years gathering dust and the owners never came to pick it up after many a phonecall.

I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!!!

He assured me that these engines are very simple and he also told me that the mechanic that gave me the wrong information was very wrong to tell us to drive without the belt on. The saga continues.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:33 am

While I certainly hope this all works out for you guys, keep in mind that you also have to accept some responsibility here.

It is your car. It is sort of a funky car. It is a car that not many people have. Part of that funkiness is required reading of the owners manual. The owners manual clearly states that driving around with no fan belt is bad with this Type 1 engine set up.

If you decide to hang onto this car after this event, I would hope that you will buy a few "must have" extra parts tht you will carry around INCLUDING a fan belt and that you LEARN how to put it on yourself with the tools that every VW came with. If that is too much, get a different car. Many others have over the years.

For this car, that spare fan belt is more important to have than a spare tire.

Just my 2 cents here....I have to call them like I see them.

Good luck!