TheSamba.com :: View topic - Swing axle won't stop leaking into drum. Ideas?

Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:38 pm

I've never seen this issue in all my years of the VW hobby. My 63 Beetle has a swing axle leak that will not go away. I've changed the seals three times in the last six months and it still leaks. One time I found a pinched o-ring but for the others everything seemed fine. Can my fellow gurus give me some opinions and advice? Thank you.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:53 pm

HERBIEMANIA wrote: I've never seen this issue in all my years of the VW hobby. My 63 Beetle has a swing axle leak that will not go away. I've changed the seals three times in the last six months and it still leaks. One time I found a pinched o-ring but for the others everything seemed fine. Can my fellow gurus give me some opinions and advice? Thank you.

Is the outer bearing cover damaged/warped?

Is the bearing cover tightened up sufficiently?

Is the axle nut torqued up sufficiently?

Missing oil deflector?

Inner and outer spacers in place correctly?

As obvious as these items are, they are often the most overlooked.

Hope this helps.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:54 pm

Forgot to mention in my post above. Is the transmission overfull? This will guarantee a leak everytime.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:01 pm

Everything is to specs. Tranny is not over full. And actually, when I repaired it last I did not add new fluid. There is no additional washer behind the swing axle cap FYI. Car is 100 percent original too. Original tranny, bearings, etc and has never been apart.

Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:04 pm

Just supplying ideas as you requested.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:08 am

Have had the spacer that rides inside the seal be too worn.

Still it should not leak into the drum.

Did you clean out the drain passage in the bearing cover or if this is a pre-1961 transaxle do you have the drain parts in place??

Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:39 pm

Eric&Barb wrote: Have had the spacer that rides inside the seal be too worn.

Still it should not leak into the drum.

Did you clean out the drain passage in the bearing cover or if this is a pre-1961 transaxle do you have the drain parts in place??

I did clean out everything really well this last time just to make sure everything was 100% sanitary. The transmission is the original 63 unit that came with the car.
I appreciate everyone's feedback. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:39 pm

Good to hear you cleaned everything, but you really have to clean out the drain hole. Have taken about a 1/8" drill, and by hand spun it up into the drain hole to get out the solidified gunk in them.

If the drain hole is clean and you have the proper paper gaskets and axle seal in place then it is pretty much impossible to have a small leak get to soaking the brakes.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:51 pm

Eric&Barb wrote: Good to hear you cleaned everything, but you really have to clean out the drain hole. Have taken about a 1/8" drill, and by hand spun it up into the drain hole to get out the solidified gunk in them.

If the drain hole is clean and you have the proper paper gaskets and axle seal in place then it is pretty much impossible to have a small leak get to soaking the brakes.

I'll second that. I once mistakenly included the paper gasket in my '61's rear bearing seal and it leaked badly, but the slingers kept the brakes oil-free.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:56 pm

You guys have me thinking. I wonder if the drain hole got plugged up with gasket material? When you guys put these together do you use one or two paper gaskets on the inside of the backing plate?

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:07 pm

Service Manual pages on late swing axle seal replacement. My advice is to not focus on the drain hole, as it should not leak at all when new. I don't know where to get good quality seals and O rings, but if you find a good source during this adventure, let us know because it seems like a crap shoot out there, emphasis on crap.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Snort, 'Late' as described in the Bentley [my copy's across town] is '65 up, correct? I think our guy's is a '63 and thus 'Early' so would it call for the paper gasket?

I use FEBIs from Arizona Autohaus. Can't recall whether they are German or Brazilian.

I know mine leaks a bit because of wear in the spacer.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:20 pm

Just to confirm, my car is an all original 1963. It did have a paper gasket on there before. If you do not use a paper gasket should sealant be used? I am talking about the form a gasket goo, not silicone caulk.

Thanks for the shop manual photos.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:20 pm

In this case, late describes the redesigned bearing cap which vents to the hole in the backing plate as opposed to the slinger that vents to the outer edge of the brake drum. Those pics are from the 1961 to 1965 Workshop Manual. Sorry, I should have specified.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:26 pm

I am having the same problem. Mine leaks from around the axle itself and not from the paper gaskets. Is this the problem you are having? I have changed mine three times with no luck as well. I have heard of many people having this problem with no good solution.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:32 pm

Paslode235 wrote: I am having the same problem. Mine leaks from around the axle itself and not from the paper gaskets. Is this the problem you are having? I have changed mine three times with no luck as well. I have heard of many people having this problem with no good solution.

I'm in the same boat, I've done mine twice but left the paper gasket out the second time. The leak moderated somewhat but it's still there. [I did top up the gearlube, so it's not that there was less to leak out!]
I think my spacers are just past passable. When it's time to replace the bearings themselves I'm going to try to find new spacers.

Thank you for the clarification, Snort.

Herbie, I used a thin coat of Permatex Form-A-Gasket.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:33 pm

I suppose you could use a sealant instead of a paper gasket, but the kits come with the paper gasket so buy a kit, they're cheap. Then I guess if you find a better seal, like the FEBI that DPicasso mentioned, you're still into the project for maybe less than ten dollars.

If you're leaking from the axle, take a look at the photo, number 7 is the washer and I think those come with the kits as well. If I remember correctly, that washer sits behind the small O ring, and the outer spacer squeezes the O ring up against the washer which forces it against the axle, making the seal work. Washer, O ring, spacer, brake drum.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:44 pm

Snort, turns out it's an Elring kit, not a FEBI. It's P/N 111598051A at Arizona Autohaus for 2.32 an axle. Sorry 'bout that.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:12 pm

HERBIEMANIA wrote: You guys have me thinking. I wonder if the drain hole got plugged up with gasket material? When you guys put these together do you use one or two paper gaskets on the inside of the backing plate?

One gasket per side of the backing plate, never had to use any sealant.

While it is best to get as much of the leak fixed, even with perfectly sealing axle seals some seepage is to be expected, so best to make sure the drain system works.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:40 pm

I have a 62 and have also been dealing with these problems. I, like you, have changed everything, everything is in the right place. Mine leaks between the seal and the axle. I even went as far as using the caps with the drain hole, which has now stopped leaking to the brakes, but leaks nonetheless.

Last time I looked at it, I noticed the wheel bearing fit very loosely to the point that it just slides off. I am assuming that this looseness is letting excess oil get around the entire bearing (more than that little washer can handle). My guess is the axle tube where the bearing sits is worn out, so all I can see left to do is get a new axle tube (too much time necessary for me to tackle right now) or somehow sleeve the tube with something to tighten the fit again.

I guess what I'm getting at is whether the wheel bearing is loose?