TheSamba.com :: View topic - Swing axle won't stop leaking into drum. Ideas?

Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:14 pm

If the bearing just slides into place that is fine. If the bearing is so loose that you can easily see wiggle up/down, front/back, with the drum on and jacked up, that would cause the seal to leak.

Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:05 am

Okay I replaced the seal again and it is still leaking slowly. I know for a fact all the washers, spacers,gaskets, etc are in the correct location. Everything is clean including the drain hole The drum is torqued down correctly to. The leak is coming from around the axle shaft. It leaks the most when running down the road. Any more idea on how to fix this.

Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:46 am

Make sure that you aren't pinching the o-ring and causing it to split or anything. That, and the seal in the bearing retainer is the only thing that is going to keep the oil captured in the axle. I've not had any problems after double checking my installs.. Take your time, and double check everything..

Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:11 pm

Try a different spacer that rides inside the seal, those can be worn out.

Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:31 pm

I too have a stubborn leak on my 63 also. My brakes stay dry but the axle and inside of the tire get oil spray once the gear oil gets hot. Next time I will CLOSELY examine the bearing and the spacers and use an OEM seal. BTW none of the paper gaskets I get will fit the casting behind the baking plate. Last time I used silicone although you shouldn't need anything. If all else fails I'm pulling and inspecting the the axle housing and end casting. If I find anything drastic I'll post.

Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:08 pm

Please some one find a solution im in the same boat too....

Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:02 pm

It sounds like yours and a few more of the posts here concern leaking between the drum and spacer, not the seal, yet no one has said small o-ring. In the reference photo, #7 washer and #9 small o-ring are what seal the center of the axle and spacer.
Could it be the washer is worn rough so it doesn't seal against the o-ring?
Maybe the o-ring is too small or poor quality with rough edges and excess flash?
When new, the o-ring should hold the spacer out a little bit and get crushed into the voids by the spacer as it's pressed by the drum when it's tightened.
You should be putting the washer on the axle after the bearing, then the small o-ring onto the axle and tight to the washer. I use one gasket and stick it to the backing plate with grease or the excess oil that drips from the axle bearing, then slip the large o-ring around the bearing. I have also seen the o-ring first and gasket over that, it doesn't seem to matter either way it seals. It is best though to pre-install the spacer into the seal/cap/slinger assembly before fitting them as a unit onto the axle, thay way you know you haven't knocked the spring off the seal, then offer the unit up and onto the axle until you can fit and tighten the bolts uniformly. Install and tighten the drum to specs the best way you can to ensure no other issues.

If you have done all this carefully and repeatedly, then perhaps a bit of silicone gaslet maker would help. The main problem is the above mentioned oil that seems to drip from the axle forever preventing a good bond. If you can let the area around the axle drain for a day, then clean the area with spray parts wash to get all the oil off in the area. Clean the washer, o-ring and spacer too. Then using Perm@tex Black gasket maker or similar coat the recess of the axle, washer and spacer with a thin layer. Spread a small amount on the o-ring after it's about 1/2' from it's seat against the washer. Use it to just fillet the seams and recesses. More here is not better as you can clog the built in failsafe drain system of slingers in the cap or drum as it may be.

BTW the slingers are also there to channel the inevitable oil that is known to seep slowly past a seal of this design. It was and is a fact that it is okay for a small amount of oil to seep past a garter seal, just so long as it is not excessive or otherwise damaging to surrounding components, i.e. brakes.
Best results, hope this helps someone.

Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:27 pm

Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:49 am

Good post 61snrf. I'm having another go at it this weekend. One question I have it that when the wheel end is disassembled how much in and out play should there be on the axle itself. I don't have any up and down play but with the retainer off you can move the axle in and out a 1/4" or so. I haven't pulled the bearing right off the axle but I will to see if it's missing the small spacer behind it. Thanks for the tips.

Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:24 am

special-k,
There is no need for a gasket behind the backing plate. Also on the subject if your retainer has the drain hole at the bottom, be sure to use a gasket with a hole for it.
It's not unusual to be able to pull the axle out slightly from the housing. The outside of the bearing may have a small amount of clearence in the housing, but the inner race should be tight on the axle itself. Do you mean the bearing is loose on the axle or in the retainer? Don't pull it out too much or there is a risk of the axle coming out of the fulcrum plates on the trans side. The tube, bearing, spacers and retainer are the only things that secure and locate the axle in location, so it floats until the drum is tight.
If the inner spacer was missing, you would probably see too much threads on the axle when you install the drum. Does the drum fit and tighten up correctly? You should have to use a puller to get the bearing off the axle if you want to check for the spacer. If you try to pull the axle and bearing out assembled you might drop a fulcrum plate and not be able to get it back in without pulling the tube and resetting the plates.
Good luck, have fun and enjoy your weekend.

Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:59 pm

My Dad and I pulled the drum off today and found no sign of leaks at the seal. We replaced the O-rings and found the replacement small O-ring was a little thicker. Everything was cleaned/examined up extra carefully and no issues jumped out at us. I noticed the paper gasket on the retainer was into the chamfer a little bit so when I reassembled it I put the gasket onto the backing plate first and then the O-ring onto the bearing. Hopefully the O-ring will seat against the paper on the hub side and the chamfer on te retainer side.The axle showed signs of being run loose with the spline being chewed up a little. The drum spline was ok but the nut had chewed into the opening and had actually picked up the shape of the drums spline. We faced off the drum and and the nut so both mating surfaces were flat. I'll run it as for a while but we think the axle tube is leaking where it's pressed into the casting. Thanks for the tips.

Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:47 am

Notice: someone told you to clean the "drain hole".

On 63 bugs there are no 'drain holes' on the support (part no. 12), there is one on the drum.

Oil leakeage, if any, on those MY are pushed out only via the part no.14.

As a confirm, you can notice on bug 65--> part 14 is not present and its thickness is replaced by an "oil deflector" spacer.

Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:07 am

I had the leaking into the drum problem on my zwitter. It took three tries to get it.
Make sure your spacer is in good shape. Make sure the axle seal is pressed into the cap properly (not cocked).
I put the cap on before putting the spacer in. Put some bearing grease on the inner lip of the seal and push the spacer in.
I've covered a couple thousand miles and so far so good.
And if your axle splines are getting crappy, that is pretty much a sign of a big job in the future.
Dave

Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:46 pm

Yeah I know :( It looks like it's been that way for a while though. I'll be keeping an eye out for a good used one or a good deal on a new axle. If it's still seeping we'll probably do the axle housing at the same time.

Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:21 am

May have already been mentioned, but the big O ring slides over the bearing, not installed in the cap. Made that mistake 3 or 4 times before I realized what I was doing was wrong.