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Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:33 pm

Just got the new CS engine in with the 002 transmission attached. Piece o' cake. Not sure what happened but can't get the hockey stick to move.

The nosecone was never off but I replaced the bushing and seal. There's no oil in the trans but some residual oil. The shaft protrudes about 1" from the seal and the coupler barely connects. The drive plates rotate if turned opposing directions and neither way if turned simultaneously in the same direction. The shaft was never moved since removing it from the bus so not sure what's up.

Don't want to put too much strain on the shifting mechanism trying to move it. This was a smooth shifting, quiet runner when I removed it.

Any ideas? Don't want to take the engine/trans out to take the nosecone off but I will if necessary.

Thanks, RB

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:31 pm

IMHO - rock it gently side to side and pull on it. grab the END with some vice grips and use them to pull it out if you can. Mine tried to lock up too while it was out. It doesn't like being just partially in gear.

Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:14 pm

Damn- I'm so close to being ready to fire I can taste it and then this.

Kent - Think it'll make any difference to put oil in the trans?

RB

Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:16 pm

I agree with Steve....put some vice grips on it and pull on it. Oil in the tranny won't make a difference. I use a thin screwdriver through the set screw hole to get some leverage to change gears if need be.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:42 am

It sound like it is in gear pull the shaft out.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:05 am

Thanks BB - Can't get the shaft to move but I'll try VDT's idea about using a screw driver to help change the position of the shaft.

RB

Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:28 pm

Tried to move the shaft in/out/left/right - visegrips/screw driver/punch-pry/twist/turn/wiggle/wobble .............no move. Did kinda gow the shaft a little tho. Nothing unfixable.

It would be out of the bus by now (only in for 24 hrs) but not sure what I'd do if I had it out. I've heard of them jamming when the nosecone has been off but I sure didn't expect it to jam since the nosecone was never off.

RB

Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:37 pm

Any chance the transmission got bashed on it's nose during installation or handling?
You say the coupler barely connects, is that with someone in the cab shoving the shifter forward hard and side to side at the same time ?(note: KEEP YOU FINGERS CLEAR OF THE COUPLER WHILE DOING THIS !!!, OWCH!!), if that gets the coupler on does it move when the shifter is connected?

If that ain't happening it sounds like the nosecone has to come off.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:40 pm

I would bet that you have 2 selector shafts in the wrong position, Like 1/2nd & reverse in 3/4th out. Only cure is to remove the nosecone. While you are there inspect the ball (if its still there) in the selector link. Bentley Trans and rear axel, page 32, figure 7-11. Reason I say that is because when I recently refreshed my nosecone there was a warning about ensuring the the selector shafts were all uniform and to check the shaft for correct movement prior to installing the trans in the bus. It was from Long Enterprise LLC. You might give them a call just to be sure.

Arern't there a couple other bus drivers here that rebuild bus transmissions?

Long Enterprises
(707) 829- 1169 phone
Hours: Monday-Thursday 9-5 (Pacific Time)
(707) 823- 5664 fax

Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:49 pm

Is this a new/rebuild trany? it sounds like it was pulled then put back. if it was rebuilt I have seen many that have been put back together with 2 shift rods not in the right place.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:39 pm

try turning both the axles in the same direction about a 1/2 turn and see if it will come out. It may be locked with a hub and synco half engaged. If you can't turn them both in the same direction, trying having someone hold one from turning while someone else turns the crankshaft with a socket etc. I wouldn't use the starter only because of the forces it can generate.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:36 pm

This trans was not rebuilt. I removed it along with the engine and replaced the input shaft seal and the nosecone seal and bushing. Never has been dumped on it's nose or abused. In fact it was a good, smooth shifting unit when it was removed.

BD- The coupler will go on and the set screw goes in but the shaft will not move with the shift rod. I'm afraid to force it.

Kent- the drive flanges will rotate opposite each other but not together in either direction. I'm going to try your suggestions before I yard the engine and trans back out.

Thanks- RB

Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 pm

it sounds like it is locked partially in 2 gears. I'd saw a prayer, grab both flanges from underneath and rock them back and forth by hand in the same directionsfor about 10 seconds. Then put the small screw driver in the linkage hole and push and pull on it (or the shifter GENTLY because it magnifies force. If it is hooked up and you have a second person have then GENTLY move it back and forth and wiggle it around while you rock the flanges back and forth. When they spin in oppisite directions the differentil is all that turns. When they move in the same direction you are rocking the gears. That might free the shifter forks. Don't use force.

I'd do that rock back and forth then try to free it four or five times before I gave up. If that fails call Richard Long at Long Enterprises and ask Richard if he has any suggestions. You may have accidently hit the nosecone hockey stick when you were putting the bushing in.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:20 pm

At this point I would pull it and take the nose cone off all will be revealed. something happed in there. My guess is when you replaced the bushing and seal it let the shift shaft move enuff to let the ball out this mite happen becouse the ball is shot thay often are. I have also seen them get jamed between gears it doesn't take much to do it sometimes so pull it and take a look it will give you a chance to change out the ball if its shot.

this is just one of about 10 I have changed in the last year. I rebuild about 12 a year of the bus tranys.

Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:25 am

Thanks, bb- Out she comes this morning. Heck, dang, poop, etc.

RB

Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:24 am

bigbore wrote: At this point I would pull it and take the nose cone off all will be revealed. something happed in there. My guess is when you replaced the bushing and seal it let the shift shaft move enuff to let the ball out this mite happen becouse the ball is shot thay often are. I have also seen them get jamed between gears it doesn't take much to do it sometimes so pull it and take a look it will give you a chance to change out the ball if its shot.

this is just one of about 10 I have changed in the last year. I rebuild about 12 a year of the bus tranys.

im willing to bet that when half the trannys lose 4th that is the problem...that little round bushing in the lever eyelet.

Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:38 am

You should see the plastic balls. theres just a little chunk left most of the time. Get the steel replacement when doing the job.

Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:08 pm

Looks like that's the way I'm headed. Engine out now. Took 1 hr 40 min. The one hour being dedicated to taking out the trans carrier bolt over the starter. (Ol' one click) Found out after about 20 min. of struggle that the captive nut was no longer a captive. Is it ever hard to get a wrench on that.

Can't bear to even look at it for the next few hours. Beautiful day on the Columbia, I'll take Lil' Lulu to town. That'll make me feel better.

RB

Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:41 pm

Those two bolts are a pain. if it weren't for those two the job would be a breeze.
When you get the nose cone off can you take a photo of the inside before you move anything?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:22 pm

Here is the inside:

It doesn't look too bad to me, sliders are lined up, the little nugget is loose in the housing slot and grooved on the face with wear I assume. Not sure how much play the ball should have or how to get it out if I wanted to change it. Cleaner than I thought it would be inside.

In this photo:

The HS is still in the same position as when I pulled it. It WILL not move in any direction. I used a rubber hammer to try to move it. That seal must be tight as a flea's ass stretched over a pickle bucket. If the HS can be taken from the trans side of the nose cone I'll just drive it through the seal from the coupler side. Must be the wrong seal and bushing. Thought it went in kinda hard.

This is obviously the problem. Kinda scratchin' my head tho.

Thanks for the help. I'm dyin' over here.

RB