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Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:19 pm

Which one is the right one? Any why are they different? It is a '63 bug
I looked for other postings on identifying these and found none.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:56 am

believe the one pictured on the left is the 'correct' one from '63. The right one is from a later model.

I am going through the same crap trying to figure out the mysteries behind these. All I can come up with is up to 66 must use -'66 covers, '67 must use '67 covers and '68 must use '68... however, I have no way whatsoever to tell what year my axle tubes/end castings are from, other than they are "short" castings.

Then I read people saying they use the later style retainers as an upgrade because of the weep hole... I really wish there was one definitive article on these.

Lastly, since I will be running rear discs, and having the caliper mounts sandwiched between the axle tube and the bearing retainer - does it even make a difference since clearances are out the window at that point.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:13 am

63 and down on left and 64 65,66 on right IF 311 is last 3 numbers and is not 311A (1967 only) IF it is 311 with no A after 311 you can use either bearing retainer. is this the correct answer you need?

Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:17 am

GLHTurbo wrote:
Lastly, since I will be running rear discs, and having the caliper mounts sandwiched between the axle tube and the bearing retainer - does it even make a difference since clearances are out the window at that point.

you need the 63 and down (on left in picture) for your rear disc brakes if using the 66 and older casting. does this help you?

Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:32 am

A bit off topic, but if by chance you are replacing the rear bearing on a swing axle, wire the axle in place so the axle doesn't slip out of the fulcrum plates.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:29 pm

I assume the one on the right can only be '66 and down. Are '67 AND '68 the long casting?

Also - would you put a paper gasket on both sides of the caliper mounting bracket? end casting to caliper mount, caliper mount to bearing retainer.

Thanks much

Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:46 pm

one on left is type 111 and is same as 1968 not same as 1967 long casting. use the type 111 bearing retainers with type 111 castings..

Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:48 pm

Protodog wrote: A bit off topic, but if by chance you are replacing the rear bearing on a swing axle, wire the axle in place so the axle doesn't slip out of the fulcrum plates.

do you mean that axle will slip out even with large snap rings holding the axle and fulcrums in place??? just askin'

Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:41 pm

from what Ive read in other posts, yes, apparently the axle can pull out far enough for the fulcrum plates to get behind it even with the clip ring in. That would be a pain but it hasn't happened to me thank F@(&!ing god. Now back to the topic: It appears I have short castings. So a need to get a early bearing retainer for the other side. Now as far as the oil deflectors and washers it looks like one side had 2 more parts than the other side! one of these I'm guessing is the oil deflector? It was trapped between the seal and the retainer and is bigger than the other washers. It was on the side with the newer ratainer. Also the manual shows a washer between the bearing and the spacer which neither side had. AAARRgg! This is a freakin nightmare. Where on earth will I find the right parts?

Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:08 pm

Hope this isn't a hijack, but I discovered this afternoon that the rear D-side oil seal on my '67 is leaking badly. I've ordered two kits from WW and will replace when they arrive. This is ALL new territory for me.

Do I understand that the drive shaft can slip out during this procedure?? Nothing about that in the Bug Me video. But if it can happen I sure want to avoid it!

So... what does "wire it in place" mean. And/or, would jacking up the wheel so it's horizontal eliminate the likelihood of that happening?

Or am I worried about something that doesn't happen here.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:33 pm

Just kidding. I'm not really qualified to answer you question but I think that when you pull the bearing retainer off just make sure the bearing itself stays put and don't pull on the shaft itself. There is no reason to anyways. I think that once the bearing comes out, the shaft can pull out of the trans and not go back. If you just pull the bearing retainer and replace the seal you shouldn't have that problem. You might want to make sure you have all the right parts for your car though since its leaking. Hopefully you will be luckier than I was. Check out mnakandala's thread on "rear grease seal problem" for photos of the "newer" and the "old" configuration.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:35 pm

Keep in mind these cars were built for over 70 years, there were many changes to the brakes, axles, bearings and retainers. Now throw in Type II, III, Ghia, IRS etc! They can confuse the best mechanics at times but it comes down to basics. Swing axle outer axle bearings are lubricated by trans fluid. The outer seals pass some oil by nature to keep themselves lubricated, but it is bad for brake linings. There is a provision to keep it off the brakes with an oil slinger, early or late. Early is a separete tube assembly sandwiched between the drum and bearing spacer that routes it outside via a hole in the drum to the hubcap area. Late is the large slinger washer trapped inside the bearing cap housing where the oil is routed out an integral drain channel to the outside via a hole in the brake backing plate.

The hard part is different years and models have different bearing caps due to axle, spacer and tube lenghts. The above noted illustrations are a good reference for assembly procedure, but you must be sure all your parts are compatible. If you go with early caps, then you should have the early slingers too, else you risk the brakes getting contaminated with gear oil. Later is best and easier, but you have to at least drill the drain holes in your brake backing plates, and be sure there is no clearance issues between the late cap and the drums, e-brake etc. This is where part numbers can help, which most people, including me don't have. You might search here in the classifieds for year specific bearing caps and slingers, or at VW swap meets, etc. Better yet, visit any local VW repair shop and take the parts with you in your hands and show them to a mechanic with experience. Hopefully they can help and may have a box full of old bearing caps to compare too.

You have to be pretty aggressive but the axles can slip out of the inner fulcrums when you take the bearings off. They axles are held in check by the outer bearings only. Usually you only need to worry when you transport the trans with no backing plates or bearing caps. You can bolt on the bearing caps back on over the bearings, or add safety wire through an empty bolt hole in the axle tube and around the bearing to hold them in when the brake plate is off as a failsafe.

Hope this helps.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:33 pm

Ok. Thank you for the extensive response. Its starting to become clearer in my head now. The depth of the bearing recess inside the 2 different bearing retainers is about 1/4 of a millimeter different. So another words pretty damn close. They both use the same size seal. So its just the issue of the oil deflector type. Who would have such parts in stock? I guess I could replicate a newer type oil deflector washer in the machine shop I work at. Just have to find another newer type bearing retainer... I could make that too if I really wanted too.. sounds like a lot of work though.

Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:14 pm

Idkleine, have you "put the feelers out" at some of the salvage yards around the country?
Maybe someone in the classifieds can come up with something even though the part isn't listed. I found a few things like that.

Nothing weaseled, nothing gained :wink:

Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:05 pm

Idkleine,
I talked with Ralph at VW Goldmine today, he say's he has a big bucket of them, but they're all mixed together. Just tell him the VW part number that's on the one you prefer to use and he will see if he can match it. Be sure to mention you need the oil deflector that goes with it if you update it.
Phone 562-693-0419 or
[email protected]

Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:48 pm

I will contact him. Im gonna look it over one more time but I think the newer type will work fine. After all Ive had one in there for thousands of miles with no actual problems.

Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:30 pm

Yes, if you didn't have a problem before then the update should be a gimme because most all early slingers were all thrown away years ago. I think you're right on in measuring the depth of the bearing recess, that's what's most important to fit and where some quirky differences crop up. I would say use the oil deflector washer too with the later style cap because like the original slinger, it is part of the assembly to position the brake drum correctly. One area to check is the drum clearance where it's hub enters the bearing cap area as early drums may be cast heavier with more internal ribs and generally beefier than replacements. This is where you might have interference with the taller shrouded bearing cap. Being a machinist, that would be a simple fix to turn it down. I don't know if you have original early drums. Most cars this age have had there drums replaced and, most replacement drums now have all been superceded to the '66 and later style anyway I believe. Drilling the backing plate should not be a problem. Just use a bearing cap gasket to mark the center, start with a smaller drill bit and work your way up 5mm or so to match the hole in the cap.