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Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:42 am

In the process of building an mTDI the clutch upgrade issue has been on my mind. I ended up going with a 228mm TDI singlemass flywheel & VR6 pressure plate with a vanagon disk. Should be good for the 250ft-lb i'm shooting for.

This setup has a few glitches, the flywheel & the dust plate interfere, there are 2 tabs on the pressure plate that contact the diesel bellhousing, the stock input shaft is too long and the JX diesel starter has some interference issues with the flywheel. The solutions I know aren't bad for these issues, the tabs just get bent over or ground off & the input shaft needs to be shortened by 3/8". That leaves the dust plate & the starter interference. I have read that the starter can be clearanced a small bit or the flywheel can be machined & that in some cases it isn't an issue so if anyone has experience there please chime in with your experience, I'd love to hear about it. At this point turning 2mm off the FW near the starter ring would probably be easiest & removes very little mass.

To use the stock dust plate requires machining 16mm off the flywheel back face reducing the weight to near the stock JX mass of 14lb, something I really wanted to avoid as I feel lightened flywheels on diesel engines aren't a good idea especially with a 11mm injection pump. I've driven a TDI with a 15lb flywheel, louder at idle & more vibration across the rpm range.

My fix for the dust plate is to make one out of 14 gauge (.064"/1.6mm) aluminum sheet. Not my idea but i'm happy with the result. Cheaper than machining the FW & none of the negative aspects of a lightened FW.

Here's a shot of the dust plate with the stock unit, i'll post more pics as I deal with the other issues.

If anyone's interested in the plate as always i'm happy to share drawings.

Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:09 am

Nice dust plate. I hadn't ever thought about making it flat, but went and looked and it will work that way. It would be easy and cheap to replicate that with a sharpie, jigsaw with metal cutting blades, drill and the side of a junk washing machine or range. :D How about three little bent tabs to go to the bolt holes to keep it in place while mating the engine and trans?

Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:36 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: Nice dust plate. I hadn't ever thought about making it flat, but went and looked and it would work fine that way. It would be easy and cheap to replicate that with a sharpie, jigsaw with metal cutting blades, drill and the side of a junk washing machine or range. :D How about three little bent tabs to go to the bolt holes to keep it in place while mating the engine and trans?

One day we're going to see you build an entire vanagon built from UPS driver delivered curbside appliances. I made the dxf so I could make more and or share them if there was some interest. I never thought about integrating the rear main seal threads, would be a nice touch. You think using some RTV to seal the plate to the bell housing be a bad idea??

Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:43 am

I wouldn't use sealant. There are two notches cut in the bottom of the bell housing in order to access the two oil pan bolts that are into the seal carrier. You also want any engine or trans oil leaks to leak out of the bell housing rather than foul your clutch.

Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:42 am

I was just out under a van looking up with better light and your flat plate won't work after all. It needs that lower bump to go over the end of the oil pan and the crank seal carrier above it. Bummer. You could remake the design so that there is a slice at the top and extra material at the bottom to create the extra hump that is necessary.

Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:53 am

I am not running a shield with my ALH TDI. There were some clearance problems with the custom oil pan. I don't go off road much and the bellhousing is open to the rear, so I never thought of it as a "deal" breaker. No problems so far. Just an idea.

Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:23 pm

Are you talking about access to the bolts on the seal carrier for the pan? The idea is the cutout in the plate fits all the way around the rear main seal and the oil pan flange where it attaches to the seal carrier. I really just ripped this off from a German eBay ad I saw, that one was in 2 pieces, split so the bottom part only had holes for the two oilpan bolts. Some company that sells Tdi conversion bits over there, like I said not my idea. It's that bent part on the stock plate that goes over the seal & into the bellhousing that interferes with the Tdi flywheel making a flat plate necessary if the flywheel is to be unmolested.
I'll use socket head bolts for the pan do it can still be easily removed.

Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:15 pm

If you have the horizontal inner cut below the lip of the pan, then it will work as is.

Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:56 pm

I can't quite find the words to describe how I feel about your contribution...

Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:45 am

My comments have been an attempt to help albeit they didn't seem to work out that way. Hopefully I am misinterpreting your last post. Perhaps it is an attempt at humor but it seems like a criticism of my comments.

Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:31 am

It is hard to tell from the picture what the dimensions are. At first glance it looks like it is cut out to fit around the seal housing only. If in fact the cutout is big enough to fit over the oil pan as well then problem solved. It was a nice offer to share your drawings to the members here.

Andrew took the time to crawl under his vanagon and look up at his setup. He noticed the plate would overlap the pan lip and his suggestion was Quote: If you have the horizontal inner cut below the lip of the pan, then it will work as is.
Seems reasonable enough.

Lets all try to get along. I will keep this in mind when the time comes to upgrade my clutch. Thank you for posting mark

Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:54 am

I definitely appreciate the idea and will be using it in the future. I'm actually looking forward to making one by hand.

Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:41 pm

No tude, just funny the progression & edits!

Its easy to see how the cutout would be a problem, its quite tight & hard to keep all the functionality of the original bent plate with a flat one. Ultimatly the answer is to slice the dust plate below the block bolts allowing the lower half to slide out for easy access to the oil pan bolts.

Like this

Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:46 pm

Right on. I can appreciate the humorous aspect of the flip flop.

I like the two part shield. It has the benefit of possibly fitting more easily over the pan regardless of whether the windage tray is used.

Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:34 pm

I am running that HA Projekt dust shield shown above. It was way overpriced but I was in a hurry. Works great.

Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:36 pm

Update time...

Heres a few shots as I assembled the clutch,

TDI single mass flywheel, VR6 pressure plate & vanagon 228mm disk

The two tabs that need to be bashed down on the VR6 pressure plate.

The 2mm turned off the OD of the flywheel to clear the diesel starter. Post office scale put it at 20lbs.

Bolted up you can see why the flat dust shield is required.

Pics for kicks of the Landrover pump & Brickwerks lever. No more raised engine lid!!

Keep in mind the transmission input shaft needs to be shortened by 10mm if the vanagon disk is to be used, the other option is to drop some coin on a custom unit from europe to fit a tdi 228mm disk. Also remember to use the pilot bearing you can look right through not the one with a solid back face (ask me how I know...)

Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:05 am

Nice work.

Keeping everything under the lid is a huge plus.

dylan

Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:00 am

Very nice work!!! Thanks for this update!!

Anthony

Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:22 am

Not sure how I missed this discussion initially. The way I have always done these is to re-use the TDI dust plate and add to it as needed, then fabricate the lower section. I like HA-Projekt's solution - I will be fabbing the whole plate on the next one. I also use HA's input shaft - this allows use of the original TDI / VR6 clutch disc, which has a stronger hub and take-up springs. I don't machine the flywheel, as the starter interference is so slight - just take about 1/32" off the nose of the starter. The flywheel needs to rebalanced after any machining. Also, curious if you transferred the timing marks to the VR6 plate - the TDI flywheel TDC mark is in the wrong place for the diesel Vanagon inspection hole. PP: bending the tabs seems to be the best way, and retains the balance.

I'll be curious to hear how the LR TDI pump works out - I haven't played around with one of those yet. Looks like an nice project!

Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:57 am

200 tdi or 300 tdi pump? Any modifications made to make it fit? AHU or 1Z engine?

Nice project :D