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Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:44 pm

runamoc wrote: vw_hank wrote: runamoc wrote: Glenn wrote: [/img]

:shock: WTF is that???

What the Germans would have done if they didn't care how much it cost in extra wire. :lol: Thy do make little wire junction boxes, that all the wires can hook to, then you have 1(one) wire going to the battery. lot cleaner and A more professional look. But hay if its working :)

Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:02 pm

oreana123 wrote: Just one more thing concerning voltage drops...the ground side of the start ciruit depends on that flex strap that connects the trans/engine to the frame electrically. If the strap is missing, or if it has poor contacts to either the frame or tansmission, you will have start circuit problems.

. Very true!! I at one time got a hard start rely( never installed it) as I have posted before in another thread, I never had A problem with starting my car! then one day I went to go to work and terned the key and the lights came on but nothing else happened :? checked every thing I could before I jumped in the other car, got home from work and tried it, it started right up :? I continued to have this problem for about 2 months, every one told me I had to install a hard start kit,, so I broke down and got one, But I just couldn't believe that was the problem I had this car for 10 years and it never did this!! so I started tearing the car apart knowing that there was A problem somewhere, and I was going to find it! well to make a long story short,, my ground strap was gone :shock: I mean it was gone!! I don't know were it went but it was not there :shock: put on A brand new one,, problem fixed :D 2years later and not one time has it not started :wink:

Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:16 pm

If your talking about the one between the gearbox and the chassis it's only there as a double up.

The engine being bolted to the gearbox, gearbox bolted to the chassis, chassis has a strap to the battery negative so it will earth through all that, the strap just makes doubly sure the ground is there as bolts gets loose/dirty/rusty and the rubber tranny mounts move around etc.

It's just like with non elephants feet taillights, you can disconnect the earth wire in the engine bay and all the lights will still work cos they're bolted to fenders which are bolted to the body which is grounded back the battery through the chassis.

The no start without a relay depends on the quality of the ignition switch.
the genuine german ones have bigger contacts in them than new replacements and it also depends on the state of your wiring, connectors and said ground strap.

Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:27 am

Quote: The engine being bolted to the gearbox, gearbox bolted to the chassis, chassis has a strap to the battery negative so it will earth through all that, the strap just makes doubly sure the ground is there as bolts gets loose/dirty/rusty and the rubber tranny mounts move around etc.

A VW engine and transaxle are isolated from ground. There is some connection to ground thru the axles at the drums. Not enough for the starter or alt/gen return current. Unless you have solid metal motor mounts, the gearbox is not bolted to the chassis, electrically speaking.

Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:03 am

vw_hank wrote: runamoc wrote: vw_hank wrote: runamoc wrote: Glenn wrote: [/img]

:shock: WTF is that???

What the Germans would have done if they didn't care how much it cost in extra wire. :lol: Thy do make little wire junction boxes, that all the wires can hook to, then you have 1(one) wire going to the battery. lot cleaner and A more professional look. But hay if its working :)

You can have the 'look' if you think that's what makes it professional. I went with the 'professional' electrical necessities. Point A to point B direct connections. Not thru a remote power distribution 'junction' box with needless extra connections. On my pos battery post, one red wire goes directly to the alt. One goes to 'helper' relay right beside it. One goes straight to the ignition switch. The other one goes straight to the headlight switch. As for one wire, 2 #10s carry more current than 1 #8. Electricity 101 :wink:

Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:42 pm

runamoc wrote:
A VW engine and transaxle are isolated from ground. There is some connection to ground thru the axles at the drums. Not enough for the starter or alt/gen return current. Unless you have solid metal motor mounts, the gearbox is not bolted to the chassis, electrically speaking.

In theory you're correct but they earth through that many points like axles and suspension, clutch and throttle cables, gear shift linkage, generator/alternator ground to body wire etc etc which is why the 100s of ones like Hanks that have had tranny work and the strap never reinstalled still run.

It was put there for a reason and will work much better with it though so there's no excuse for it to be missing.

I've always run a 0 Guage wire from the neg battery terminal to the engine block just for added measure.

Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:47 am

I am doing this now, and where does 87a go?

Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:10 pm

Nowhere, leave it unconnected.

Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm

cookrw wrote: I am doing this now, and where does 87a go?
87 closes when powered and 87a opens when powered.

Leave it unconnected.

Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:50 pm

Joel wrote: Nowhere, leave it unconnected.
My electronics background is screaming at me that floating connections are EVIL... Can I ground it?

Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:54 pm

cookrw wrote: Joel wrote: Nowhere, leave it unconnected.
My electronics background is screaming at me that floating connections are EVIL... Can I ground it?
If you do it will create a dead short

Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:01 pm

Glenn wrote: cookrw wrote: Joel wrote: Nowhere, leave it unconnected.
My electronics background is screaming at me that floating connections are EVIL... Can I ground it?
If you do it will create a dead short
Good enough reason for me! :)

Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:44 am

Installed a HSR about a week or so ago...took all of 5 minutes...took longer to remove and reinstall the rear seat bottom! :lol:
Have driven the car on a couple of long hot drives, and the car now restarts when hot...prior to this it would occasionally fail to start with the ignition switch and I would have to bump start it.

Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:27 pm

Sweet this is just what I was looking for. Very clear info. I'm not sure and just to be clear, the relay is designed to keep the power out of the ignition switch and as close to the starter from the battery as possible correct? I hope this will aid with my problem. I am also going to install a new ignition switch and possibly down the road a push button starter. Gotta work out security of it, maybe using my high beam switch on the column since it doesn't activate high beams =D

Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:36 pm

Whats the part number for the relay to use ?

Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:44 pm

68, just go to MidAmerica and get there Bosch hard-start relay harness. It's all done up for you. And it's Bosch--and kind of cheap, too.

Tim

Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:45 pm

68IHscout wrote: Whats the part number for the relay to use ?
Give this site a read to learn all about the Bosch-style 12v SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw) relay.
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp
It is very likely you can find it as a generic relay in the DIY section of your FLAPS. For the purposes of this HSR you could also use any SPST relay rated at 20A or more. 30A is a more common rating.

Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:14 pm

Thanks guys , ill just get the ready made one ...

Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:45 pm

I don't know if this is a concern any more, but I remember back like 15 years ago, we had to double check the Bosch WR-1 kits we sold for proper wiring of the harness - sometimes they'd be assembled with the wires plugged into the wrong holes in the relay socket.

Sun May 24, 2015 8:59 am

So, if I have read this post and also this post
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462041&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I should be able to wire in a standard on/off switch and push button start of any amprage, along with a hard start relay??? Cause that will prevent frying the push button???