TheSamba.com :: View topic - It starts

Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:36 pm

After a few months of getting parts and courage together, I have started the restoration of my 78 Westfalia. Of special note; I have absolutely zero experience with metalwork and/or welding, but have a helper/mentor that is guiding me through the process. As has been said on many occasions, (a) if you're going to own an older ACVW, you better learn how to work on them, repair and maintain them -and- (b) no one is going to put as much pride and care into a job as the owner. In this case, I'm banking on that and hoping my patience will help offset my learning curve. Anyway, too late to turn back now as CUTTING has begun. Stay tuned as I upload photos and will have a ton of questions for the brain trust here. Thanks

Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:39 pm

Here is a same day pic of the bus showing the "before" status and my beautiful daughter jumping in for a quick pose.

Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:57 pm

Below is a quick pic of the owner (ME) and anther angle of the "before" status

Rear pieces to install. Not shown is both battery trays which will also be replaced. It's the old cliche that "looks can be deceiving". I know you're thinking, why in the heck is he cutting on that beautiful thing. Stay tuned and you'll see.

Next, pics of the left (drivers) side replacement panels and a glimpse of the only visible exterior cancer/hole. Note the front edge of the rocker/sill plate where it meets the bottom of the B-pillar.

Pics of the right side panels that will be going on.

Note the Ghia on the left. Although beautifully restored, this was the reason why I decided to take on the bus project myself. WHen I bought it, she was in real good condition and only need minor work done. Won't mention the shop, but after an $8k bill, I made up my mind to start doing these things myself. Plus, as SCARY as it is, it is also a great deal of fun and brings immense satisfaction. More updates coming shortly.

Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:45 pm

Deciding where to start. I haven't pulled the interior out yet, so it left me two options. I could either start on the rear (corners & inner/outer vallance) or start with the doglegs. Why you ask? Much of the side panels have insulation behind it and inorder to weld, I would need to remove it, which means cabinet remval, etc... This would of delayed me a day and my helper was only available for the weekend.

The cutting begings. We started with the right rear corner. Oddly the crappy replacement panels are missing the eyelets for the rear light screws and do not have cut-outs on the side for the running lights. A little added work due to this.

The right rear corner coming off. and a shot of my helper/trainer - Leon. Of special concern.... Notice the bottom of the verticle support where it meats the undercarriage frame. Not much left there and latter you'll see this really slowed things down.

Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:25 am

When we exposed that vertical support member and saw the cancer at the bottom of it, I knew that this project just grew in complexity and required time. As noted in the photo above this post.

Here is what we discovered when we pulled the outer skin or exterior rear vallance. When I first saw the spring looking "thing", I was thinking that it was a wire to something. It is actually metal that curlie-Qs in front of a saw blade (not ours by the way). The previous owner had cut out either body rot or damage from a minor accident and welded on a huge patch piece. No problem, other than the fact that they did not seal it well and the inner vallance rusted from the inside out.

Here is a picture of the inner vallance What is it about old Westys that make such good homes for either mice or hornets?

Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:19 am

When U get finished, lets see another pic of your daughter by the bus to see how much taller she will be. LOL! Just go for it. Out here, just the rubber rots. Good luck.

Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:50 am

Great start Dave!!! I applaud your efforts. My bus needs pretty much the same patching. Stop by if you go to the Labor Day BugOut, I live like 5 minutes from the speedway. My Bus would like to meet your Ghia.

Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:23 pm

OK - finished cleaning up the right side battery tray area. Here is a shot of the test fit. Looks good, so drilled a few holes in the lip around the perimiter to facilitate spot welding as surrounding pieces are replaced. Will say this. The left side is an OE VW tray and the right is aftermarket. No surprise here, but the OE piece is so much nicer and didn't need any finessing to fit.

Shot of the test fit. Aftermarket tray needed a little finessing to fit and meet all the contours of the original panels.

Now - First question of the project has surfaced. On each side of the engine compartment opening there is a verticle support box that comes down and meets the subframe. Basicly this is where the inner vallance goes. See in the pic below, there is a nut inside that frame support (top right), yet nothing was attached to it as we removed pieces. Any idea what this was/is for? On the bottom of that verticle channel is a nut for one of the bumper bolts so dont confuse it for that one. Was wondering if this was for a hitch or possibly a dealer installed accessory or semething.

Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:39 am

XXX/Rx/RnR wrote: When U get finished, lets see another pic of your daughter by the bus to see how much taller she will be. LOL! Just go for it. Out here, just the rubber rots. Good luck.

Much older and with kids. lol.

Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:19 am

Have faith my VW bretheren. I really debated this as she drove fine and was quite reliable. Just didn't want to wait until it was too late and "beyond repair". ....or maybe better worded, beyond my skill level or budget to repair. I see those slit guys bringing buses back from the grave. Hats off to them. Stay tuned, have another weekend coming up with hopes of at least getting the rear vallance (vallace ?) installed. Still lots of time consuming "meat" to remove by hand that is too big for a cut off wheel or too confined for the dremel. Speaking of which, I have used the crap out of the dremel (cutting wheels & grinding). I love that lil' bastard. :shock:

p.s. Jody, I will be going to the BugOut, but will most likely be in my brothers two tone (white/red) 70 Westy. We usually pull into the fairgrounds and park along the fence immediately to your right after entering. Hope to see you there.

Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:26 am

No one rides for free... Keep up the great work bro!!! Tell Leon he only has one more weekend left.

Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:23 am

Dave,
I did the same rear valence job on my Westy. Looks like you could use a cutoff wheel driven by an air compressor! :D Anyway, I'm in no way a professional, but take it slow, take pics, and measure everything 5 times before you cut. As for your threaded connection, I don't recall anything that went in there. When you weld it all up, Por15 everything before you seal it up with the outer skin.

Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:12 am

Thanks for the advice "2VWs), wish I had an air compresser large enough to run the nuematic tools. Would kill for a panel flanger.

Quick update.
Again, you see the reminents of those verticle support beams where they connect to the sub frame. This is kind of a "before picture". You'll also see some rot and my attempt to weld in a patch on one side of the subframe. The inner piece still has the rot in it and I may attempt to form and put in a patch piece, but that side has the added challenge of having a contour to it. Would made another opportunity to practice my rookie welding skills, since I'm going to have to replace it anyway. I have only found the replacement pieces for that section of the frame (#211-703-201) @ VWHeritage in the UK and shipping is going to set the project back another two weeks. Anyone know of a US source?

So, I cut enough of the verticle frame off (a) as it was all rotten an (b) would be much easier to fab the replacement piece if I could get a clean profile piece to duplicate. In the pic below, I jumped a few steps and it shows the section of the verticle frame removed and the sub frame box cleaned out of the reminents of the original inner vallance. The dremel worked wonders here with the tight detail work.

Now.....ready for this? I was not able to find this replacement part so tried my skills at metal fabing, with little more that a garage vise. Here is a "top down" shot comparing the old (left) and new (right). Since the new piece is much taller and closer to the camera lense, the dimensions look larger, but in reality, this is not the case.

This is a better shot of each piece laying down adjacent to each other. Again not perfect, but I am fairly proud since I have never attempting anything like this before. Even made the "engine seal" lip. Nothing welded together yet, but the hard part is done.

Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:28 pm

Hello,

Excellent fabrication work. Looking real good and looking forward for more updates. As for places where you can get body metal in the USA look to either www.bustedbus.com, http://www.partsplaceinc.com/, or http://www.interstateusedparts.com . Either place should get you what you need so best of luck. Keep the updates coming. :-)

Dennis

Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:19 am

Thanks for the leads Dennis. I have used Just Kampers and VW Heritage, both in the UK, for hard to find parts. Their prices are actually better, but shipping kills you and then customs calls and you have to pay them inorder for the shipment to continue. I'll check out those sources. Thanks again!

Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:27 am

:applause:

Those are some nice fab skills without all the tools on hand!

Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:50 am

Running behind on updating the post. Last weekend was a productive one.

Here is the assembled left verticle support rail now in place. It is far longer than it should be and we'll trim the ends once we see where the bottom tabs of the inner vallace hit. The extra welds have been ground down and it looks far better in person than the pic indicates.

Here is another shot, showing a side profile and the fabricated engine lid weather seal lip.

A shot of my rookie welding skills. Keep in mind I had never touched a welder before three weeks ago. I know the beed is a little rough, but it gets better every attempt. Takes a little finesse getting the wire speed just right where the wire isn't pushing the tip away from the metal or running too slow and the welding tip touches the metal. Long story short, if I can do it, anyone can. Really!

....and without boring the crap out of you, I'll jump ahead in the process. Here (below) I have both verticle support rails trimmed to size and have dry fitted the inner vallace. Fits like a glove!

Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:53 am

Just and FYI for any of you DIYers. I just bought a panel flanger off of ebay and have started to use in on the rear corner. Basicly, it places a 0.5" step down or lip in the replacement panel, so when fitted against the body metal you (a) have a back to weld against verses butt welding and (b) provides a little forgiveness if your cut is off a hair. Great $39 purchase off of ebay. I'll capture some shots of it and the flange it creates this coming weekend, although I'm going to head to the Manassess BugOut" on Sunday. Hope to see some of you there.

Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:21 am

turn the heat up a notch and slow down....try not to build big blobs of metal.
The speed of the wire and the heat ranges should be so you can weld the metal without burning thru or just building a big blob. Weld in bursts to control your welding, don't just hold the trigger down. You are using shielding gas?

For butt welds use a piece of flat copper to hold behind it as the welding won't stick to it and gives you something to weld against. Or get a flange tool..

Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:08 am

Bleyseng wrote: turn the heat up a notch and slow down....try not to build big blobs of metal.
The speed of the wire and the heat ranges should be so you can weld the metal without burning thru or just building a big blob. Weld in bursts to control your welding, don't just hold the trigger down. You are using shielding gas?

For butt welds use a piece of flat copper to hold behind it as the welding won't stick to it and gives you something to weld against. Or get a flange tool..

Great feedback and I sincerely appreciate and will use it. No gas shielding, although I could go that route if I rented a bottle. Right now using flux core wire. Funny you mention backing the butt welds with copper. I went to two fairly large welding supply houses (not box store retailers) and in both places they had heard of using copper blocks or spoons to back a butt weld, but said it was "old school" and neither sold them.

The "big blobs". Yes....lol I know as everytime I have to grind them smooth or flush I'm asking myself; "how do I still make a solid weld without building it up (i.e. so high). Thanks again for you advice. I am actually really enjoying this and can see my welding improve with each attempt. I'll showcase some more this coming weekend.