TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1957 Euro Semaphore/Ragtop Vintage Speed Project

Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:31 pm

Ok here is my story. My very first car when i was 15 years old. A 57 VW Sedan. So at the age of 50 i have decide i wanted to relive all those great memories that 57 gave me. So i found a pretty solid 57 for a restro project. As i have worked on the 57 for the past 6 months or so i stumbled upon this fourm Vintage Speed. So i made the decision to put some of the info from here into my 57.

I will share with you as i go.

Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:41 pm

This is how she looked the day i picked her up.

Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:54 pm

The 57 came with its original 36Hp. How ever i came accross. A 1948 solid aluminum case that will be the basis for my Vintage Speed engine. I will leave the original engine alone at this time. After all plugs removed and oil galleys cleaned along with a good case cleaning the case was sent to Rimco for a once over and a Bore job for bigger P&Cs . The case has been dirlled and taped for oil galley plugs and for full flow .

Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:09 pm

very nice case. 8) 8)

Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:56 pm

Bling bling!!!!
Glad you found this thread and decided to join us, good luck on you project and keep us informed.

Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:59 pm

Rwoodshvac wrote: T

Beautiful case, what a great platform to work from

Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:11 pm

You might consider selling that case to someone with an early car in need of that specific case for their project, and picking up a good later 36HP case. They are cheap and easy to find, whereas the pre 49 cases are not..... something to consider.

Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:44 pm

Aluminum cases were born to be hopped up. Throw a supercharger and twin plug ignition on there while you're at it.

Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:41 am

Here is the pan before i started. They were in pretty good shape the left was good but the right had eaten thru in the battery tray. So i decided to replace both with WW pans so both sides will match

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Pans cut out

Pans fit and welded back in

Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:01 pm

I decided on using the Master Sieries Paints Two coats

I did a total restoration of the Pan
Rebuild Trans, Rebuild Cluster Assy. New bearings on all four coners including trailing arms, New Bushings in rear swing plates. New Kings, Ti rods Etc. New brakes on all four corners to include New master cylinder New brake cylinders on all four corners All new brake lines shoes Etc.
All new hardware in Stainless. New gromets and new cables as well, Shocks

With Chassis finished its time for some Vintage Speed Engine Work

Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:16 pm

Just one word on Quality do your homework. I tried to save a few buks on the pans. But in the end i was dissatisfied and ended up getting the WW pans. They were much nicer than the budjet ones . Heads and sholders above. Had the hassel of resale the inferior ones I will not mention name

Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:14 pm

Ok I have the case to build my Vintage Speed Engine. Time to make a decision on the internals
I read a lot of different posts in the vintage speed forum and asked a lot of questions regarding the fitment of Porsche cranks into a 36 hp VW case. I got a lot of different answers. So I just decided to go ahead and figure it out hands on. I have friend who had a friend with some Porsche 356 stuff to play with . So I took my case and a two hour trip up the road to play. So here is what I have seen first hand A Porsche 356 Crank in Pre-A , A or B will drop right in with no mod's or clearance issues at all. A 356 C crank is a different story it is not a drop in and will require case work.
So I decided on a Porsche 356 B crank for my build. I found a 356 B crank in great shape from a guy on the 356 Registry site. I sent it in to have it checked out. We ended up maching all the bearing surffices .25 mm 1st Cut. Did all the other work Balance , Magna fluxed Etc.

So here is the reasons i decided to go this route
74 mm Stroke Crank
No clearance issues as Porsche had all that worked out
No machining needed to be done to the case A true Drop in
you can use VW bearings for the mains , readily avalible at a very good cost.

Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:36 pm

Hello-

If you regrind the crank, does that mean you have to nitride it as well?

Thanks,

Paul

Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:53 pm

Paul
Yes that is what i was told. So i paid the price But im not a expert. I just pay the bill. Maybe an expert can chime in and let us know if its worth the price.
Rick

Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:18 pm

Rwoodshvac wrote:
No machining needed to be done to the case A true Drop in
messure the main journals...are they all 50mm? then it is plug and play there.
and don't forgett that you will use connection rods on a crank ;)

Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:52 pm

Grueni

Yes i agree rods a probably as important as any other part of the engine. With the Porsche crank having Porsche rod demension it makes sense to use Porsche Rods. My new friend suggested that the Porshe B and later rods were the strongest. Part # 616.103.101.01 So for this build i found a set of B Rods for a good price and sent them off to Rimco for a refurbishing and Rebushing. I should have them in the in a day or two as i sent them out last week. Once i get them back i will balance them to a 10th of a gram or so.
Another positive thing for these rods. good german bearings are easy to come by for around 50 Bucks

Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:20 pm

:wink:
what i mean was that you can't put a 74mm crank into the 36hp case without porting it, the crank will fit, but not with the connection rods on them.
for sure the 616 are the strongest, but the most do not need them in 36hp cases i only would use them with over 100hp goals. but everybody think a little bit different in those things.
the non 616 are up to 100gramm less in weight. and machining them to late 616 rod bearings is very easy. but when you have them use the 616.

Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:49 am

Grueni

I guess i failed to say i did a mock up before i sent my Rods to Rimco. In my Case and i would assume it would be true for all 36hp cases. If you use a Poarshe 356 Pre-a, A or B crank with Porsche B rods you do not have to do any Clearancing or porting of the case or the rods. They drop right in with no clearance issues at all.
Once i get the rods back i will take pictures of the closet tolerances.

On another note
I am even thinkinng with a little clearancing work you may could run a Reground Porsche crank in 75 or 76mm but in not sure on that i would need some time to figure that out with all the components in hand.

Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:58 am

Hello-

To fit a crank with a stroke longer than 74mm, you'll need decrease the diameter of the rod journals. I've heard that you can use rods from a Honda, but I've never seen it done.

Paul

Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:12 pm

Paul
I have not heard of that. Sounds interesting. When i mocked up my engine before sending the crank of rods off it appeared that i had at least 3 or 4 mm of clearance at the smallest clearance that was between the rod and cam. I mocked the engine up with a cam that has the Porsche 1500s profile.
I was thinking if you used a cam with less lobes and a set of ratio rockers you may could get 76 mm . As i said i do not have all the parts in hand so once i get them in i will do some serious measuring for maybe a future project.