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Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:51 pm

Good evening all,
Sold my 74 last year and have been looking to replace with a 87 or later. There has been plenty posted about GW vehicles but I have not found any posts on people buying vans from the subagon, vanaru or small car guys. Does anyone here have first or near first hand experience with any of the vehicles they folks sell? The subagon guys have had a couple of very nice looking vehicles posted recently and I have read good things about the engine installs by the fine folks at Vanaru. Just wondering. Thanks.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:54 am

Hello,

You are asking about apples and oranges. Subagon, Vanaru and Small Car are primarily in the business of converting Vanagons to Subaru power. GoWesty is doing total restorations. There is plenty of (too much for some) information on Samba about the Subaru conversion. Speaking as someone who owns a Subaru powered Vanagon, I would not hesitate to recommend buying a van that has been converted professionally.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:36 am

Thank you for the response. I understand the difference between a GW van and a subaru conversion. My question is more specific to whether anyone has bought a completed van from one of these companies. I have read many of the threads on the pros/con of the subaru conversion vs waterboxer. GW has a generally good reputation for the quality of its work and the product delivered but I can find nothing on vehicles completed by subagon/vanaru/smal car/rocky mountain westy/etc. It is the overall experience of buying a pro overhaul/conversion and the quality of the finished product I am looking for with these other companies. Thanks again.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:54 am

If you look on GW in the "Sold" section I believe most of them have email addresses of the purchasers for references.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:17 am

I believe what wcdennis was saying is this:

Go Westy sells completely restored vans as well as doing restorations on customer's vans. I have never seen a Subaru powered van for sale on Go Westy's site, however.

I believe Small Car, Vanaru and the other companies you mentioned are more in the business of installing a Subaru engine in a van you already own -although I have seen Subagon advertise completed vehicles on the Samba.

I own a Subaru powered van that had a Vanaru-prepared EJ22 installed by the PO's mechanic. While the installation could have been done better, I must say that I have nothing but praise for Hans at Vanaru. He has been generous with his time and expertise on many occasions, even though I have never been able to buy anything from him (I've tried).

I would not hesitate to ship a van to Hans for conversion if I were in that market.

Another place you didn't mention that does conversions is Buslab in Berkeley. They were actually recommended to me by Hans and helped diagnose and fix an illusive problem. I would consider them for a conversion as well.

Good luck.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:03 am

i have a vanaru install also and am completely happy, super clean install ,these guys know there stuff, the cost of a vanaru install versus a GW purchase is a big diff, after the motor i still had to address the other issues myself, transmission, fuel lines, gas tank, brakes, cooling , pop top seals , interior,window seals, camping euip tons of misc little items....after 5 yrs it pretty much complete minus the rims/frnt heater blower & rear heater :roll: :lol: whos kidding who, ill never be done with her...its a full blown sickness that i can barely control :lol: :idea:

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:12 am

I bought most of my conversion parts for my Subie conversion from Small Car Performance. I was very pleased with them personally and generally pleased with the quality, but I had one issue with some shade-tree-mechanic-quality work on my reversed coolant manifold* that was never resolved to my satisfaction. This experience leaves me pretty leery about an entire conversion done by their shop. My conversion has been running flawlessly and I couldn't be more pleased, but I'm constantly checking the temperature senders for coolant leakage. I can't imagine driving a van in which I was questioning the quality of the wiring harness, whether the clutch/throwout/cross shaft was properly inspected and assembled, the quality of inspection of the timing belt idlers, the prep work for the head gaskets, and whether the elaborate head bolt torque procedure was followed. I tend to be nervous about work done on my cars anyway... there are only a couple of mechanics I trust... my experience causes me to doubt their attention to detail and willingness to stand behind their work would be up to my expectations.

*Since I'm putting this out there I feel an obligation to explain what the problem was so you can decide if it's a legit complaint or if I'm a whiner. I paid them to have my coolant manifold "professionally" reversed when I was buying the conversion parts. Then I lost my job and the conversion project sat for about 2 years. When I got around to reassembling the engine I realized that neither of the temperature sender mounts were drilled perpendicular to the surface they're supposed to seal against. Seriously, I could have done better with a hand drill, but I would have used my drill press if I'd done the work myself. I can't recall about the Subaru sender, but the VW one uses a flat copper washer and they were out of square enough that even a crush washer was not going to fill the gap on one side. I was told that since the parts sat for 2 years they were technically out of warranty, but if I paid shipping they would fix the problem. I got the manifold back with a bad hand grinding job done to try to make the sealing surface perpendicular to the holes... so then it still wasn't perpendicular, wasn't flat, and was full of 80 or 100 grit grinding marks. I was told that their mechanic with 20 years experience said it would seal fine with a little rtv. I hand filed it closer so I could use minimal rtv... you can't let the rtv insulate the VW sender from the manifold because that's its electrical ground. There's also a grinding gouge on the heater bypass barb they installed that makes me nervous. This might be only one small detail, but for me it calls into doubt whether the 100 or so other details that go into a conversion would get the same care (or lack there of). If I were doing another conversion I would still consider parts from SC, but I would inspect the hell out of them upon arrival after this experience and I would source the reversed coolant manifold and stainless exhaust elsewhere.

Paul

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:17 am

I have a Vanaru EJ25 conversion and can echo what GBA 88West LA says above. Hans is professional, honest, and competent; and has been willing to follow up with me on email questions beyond the warranty period. I can't speak to the quality of the other guys, but am extremely happy with the Subaru power.

GBA's other point is also well taken though - if you can afford GoWesty's price tag, they will have taken care of all the dozens of other things that you would otherwise have to do yourself. Personally I like doing these so it's not an issue for me.

What other people are saying above is also true - I don't think any of the Subaru conversion shops sell preconverted vans. You might look for a van that is in good shape except for the engine and within limping/towing distance from one of the shops you mention, and have them throw in the new engine as well.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:18 am

GBA 88West LA wrote: whos kidding who, ill never be done with her...its a full blown sickness that i can barely control :lol: :idea:
I've thought about this numerous times since I've had the Vanagon back on the road and I keep making little tweaks and mods: these vehicles are a hobby as well as transportation. I'm glad I did my own conversion because I spent time in the engine, trans, and radiator bays taking care of little details and mods that I wouldn't have paid someone shop time to address (not to mention I wouldn't have been in there and noticed some of them). I don't do this with my Outback and I didn't do it with my Camry... not because they were "perfect" from the factory but because they don't inspire me in the same way. Yes... it's a sickness. I sold my air cooled VWs and tried the 12 step program, but in the end I think I'll just feed my volksaholism to keep the worst symptoms at bay! :)

pd

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:20 am

Floyd74 wrote: There has been plenty posted about GW vehicles but I have not found any posts on people buying vans from the subagon, vanaru or small car guys.

Floyd,

In my long years of vw bus/van ownership I don't think I've ever come across anyone who has bought a complete van with conversion from these places although I'm sure there may be few out there. But to reiterate what others have said, the places you mention mostly supply parts for or do convers. for people who already own their rigs. Those vendors may offer a complete package once in a while but it's not their 'assembly line' bread 'n butter.

I'd recommend you find a nice vehicle first and then have the conver. done. I've had three subie convers done to-date and it's all about the health of the donor engine plus the quality of installation. If these two criteria are satisfied then I can assure you'll be happy.

I'm personally only familiar with SmallCar which has a mixed reputation. Most of the time their parts and convers. are well received interspersed with occasional unsatisfied customers - sort of a hit 'n miss with mostly hit.

Many of us here in the PNW hire gear-head individuals (not companies) who know what they're doing to do the conversions - there are about 7 or 8 now in my berg. If you have a vw community where you live you might want to check around and see who volks recommend locally. It's preferred because it eliminates major travel and keeps you close to and an eye on whoever's doing the conver.

Bob

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:32 am

As stated above, Go westy is into full restorations where as the other companies just do the engine swaps. I've worked with Hans at Vanaru and he really puts out a great product. I built up my own van using his parts and immediately drove it 3700 miles in 6 days and had no problems. I'm now the only other installer using his parts in the US and I feel confident standing behind the product.

If you're asking about the Go westy souped up engine vs a Subaru, then it's obvious that I'm going to say go Subaru, as I have one and install them so I may be a little biased. The cost of the 2.5 GW engine is $7k for just the long block and they've essentially taken an engine with marginal reliability/longevity and souped it up, which rarely helps reliability, plus you have to use premium fuel and still have less power than the Subaru! You still need to reuse all your old wiring or pay to have it replaced too.

The Subaru swaps are modern, have powerful stock output, have very few mods, use regular fuel, and have all newer electronics.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:38 am

I have to ask (out of ignorance): when you have a Vanagon with a Subaru engine in it, where do go for engine service?

I live on a sailboat, so don't have a garage to play in . . .

Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:59 am

For Service, I recommend going to a good independent shop. I have two local clients and one of them has taken his van into a great local mechanic for a few things, but the only thing engine related that he's done to his van was an oil change. They spent some time checking out the swap and liked what they saw and said they wouldn't have a problem doing any work to it. The other client does his own oil changes and hasn't had his van into any shop since the swap was done.

A Subaru dealership could work on the engine and at least with Vanaru and my conversions, the diagnostic port is easily accessible. Some dealerships may not want to work on the van just because it isn't stock, but few people take their cars to the dealer after the warranty period anyways, so I just recommend going to someone independent who is familiar with both Subarus and Vanagons. Of course for the specific conversion pieces you'll need to contact your conversion supplier for replacements, but there really aren't any maintenance items that are conversion specific.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:00 am

Corwyn wrote: I have to ask (out of ignorance): when you have a Vanagon with a Subaru engine in it, where do go for engine service?

I live on a sailboat, so don't have a garage to play in . . .

Most folks say that any Subaru mechanic will work on it. That hasn't been my experience here in LA. Two of the Subaru gurus in my area flatly refused (politely) to work on my van at all.

One independent Subaru shop that did do some work for me actually welded my muffler to the hanger bracket.

I think it's a good idea to find a conversion-savvy shop in your area, or be prepared for an accellerated learning curve!

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:08 am

to be frank ive only had to change the oil :D for the big stuff i plan to utilize my friendly neighbor hippie gear head who works at the local subi dealership..he even had me bring my van to the shop so all the mechanics could see it 8)

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:08 am

I agree with Vango. With a healthy donor engine and quality install you'll find there isn't much to fiddle with on the subie 2.5L. Changing plugs and filters are something you can do. Keep in mind it has a timing belt that needs change-out roughly every 90k miles -- something a pro should do unless you know how.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:11 am

you might want to try Europro in Costa Mesa Ca. This shop does not do full restorations but you can buy a nice westy and send it to this shop.
really one of the best. I did not do my conversion at this shop but have seen his conversion and it was super clean and the owner was 100% satisfied. I have taken my syncro to have it repaired by this shop. few things about this shop which many people highly recommend.

1. has one of the best feedback in roadhaus vw. http://www.roadhaus.com/shops_advanced_search_results2.php

2. has done over 87 subaru conversions and one of the cleanest installs.

3. does not use donor motor but a completely rebuilt one. I believe last time I checked conversion was about $12k for 2.2 suby

I would recommend to find a great condition westy then drive it to Europro and have him do the conversion and all the mechanicals done. It would still be cheaper then Go-westy restored vehicle.

I assume your budget is kind of high if your looking at a Go-westy vehicle so here is what I would recommend.
1. buy a clean og westy to start $8k-15K
2. send it to europro for conversion and all the mechanicals $12-16k
3. spend extra $4-5k in nice add ons.
dual battery, solar panel, nice steel bumpers, south african headlights, 3 window canvas, propex heater, 16 wheels and tires, maybe satelite tv, and nice bike rack, recaro seats. and the list could go on

so for about $40k you could have one of the sickest westy's and it's still way cheaper then go-westy's and 1000% better engine plant.

I'm sorry but I would never go back to driving a waterboxer after having the suby conversion.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:14 am

[I'm sorry but I would never go back to driving a waterboxer after having the suby conversion.[/quote]

amen !

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:47 am

To put the thread back on track.
Quote: My question is more specific to whether anyone has bought a completed van from one of these companies.

Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:50 am

So many choices