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Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:58 pm

Hi guys,
Hope this is posted in the right place.
I'm more of a Bay Bus guy, but thought everyone might enjoy some pictures I took while on a working vacation in China this last October/November. I have an adopted daughter from China and have made a couple visits over the last decade and have seen the changes going on over there first hand. Specifically to the Chinese cars I've observed.
When I first went over in 2000, I'd have said VW had at least 80% of the total car market on the mainland with prolly 95% of all taxi's being early 90's jettas and something called a Santana, which I believe was called a Dasher or Fox over here. I'd have swore that VW took their old tooling and set up shop over in the Chinese mainland and started cranking out those old cars because a lot of them were looking very brand new. Still, most Chinese traveled by bike.
Fast forward to 2007 when I went over again and the dominate brand was still VW, but the Japanese had made a big inroad into VW's little cash machine, older model retooled cars. Lots of new, sleek, Toyotas and Nissans running around now. The biggest American brand presence was, stangely, Buick. Bikes had now been replaced by scooters and small displacement motorcycles.
Now that the Chinese have become more wealthy, they are buying cars, and buying cars, and buying cars. Ever seen a 5 mile wait for diesel? Easily a couple days. Anyway, the dominate make is still VW over there but only maybe 40% of the cars are VW now. The Chinese have had to step up to the plate (and so has VW) to serve all the new car owners and there are now lots of Chinese made, probably Korean/Japanese designed, cars tootling about now. Here's a sample of VW's I saw over there. It's by no means an exhaustive list, but gives you an insight into what VW is doing in the rest of the world.

First, is the obligitory New Beetle. Yes they are actually over there, but very few. I think I saw 3 while I was there. Ran across this one during one of my many walks around the city. Yep, looks like a NB to me.

Next up, the Santana. Still looks like a Dasher/Fox but a little updated. I'd say this is fairly new, maybe 5 years old.

This is called a Sagitar. My guess is that it is the equivelent of the Jetta over here in the USA.

Passats pretty much look the same in China as they do in the USA.

Ditto Golfs.

Now this is called a Bora. I kept thinking these were Passats every time I saw one, but they were just a little different. I don't think there is a USA equivelent.

Here is one of the many taxis you see. They are all this color, or a dark red. They are all over the place and a taxi ride in China is CHEEP! Late 90's model Jetta, maybe?

OK, have you ever seen a brand new MG?

Thought I'd throw this one in, too. Lots of things like this but they rode like a truck and are not very popular, but they are around.

-dasdachshund

Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:03 pm

VW is HUGE in China!!! Great pics, thank you for sharing.

Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:00 pm

A few updates -- Santana, like Quantum, was another name used for the second generation Passat. That one looks to be circa 1984 although its condition would make one think it was newer. The Santana name was dropped quicker than the Quantum name in their respective markets.

Bora was the name used in Europe for the fourth generation Jetta. That looks more like a current generation Jetta with alternate tail lights. (The Passat looks to have alternate tail lights, too.) Perhaps the Bora name was retained for the Chinese market. Perhaps someone just affixed the Bora name plate on their own. (Similarly, the third generation Jetta in the states was called a Vento in Europe. My daughter's car now sports the Vento name plate.)

The taxi definitely is a second generation Jetta (1985-92 model year). The facing between the tail lights that houses the license plate is flush except for the plate area making me think it is from the later end of that model run.

I've seen MG's in European magazines. Always nice to see another.

Very cool pics. Thanks for sharing indeed.

Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:24 pm

The shanghai B5 passat wagons had a longer wheelbase than the rest of the world. Iirc it was like 3" in the rear door. They also had different tail lights and a different dash vent arangement. They also had different timing on their trim upgrades with some mixtures of front end design and body trim that we never saw here. I had several different pieces on my old 00 passage from a Chinese version.

Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:17 am

oasis wrote: The taxi definitely is a second generation Jetta (1985-92 model year). The facing between the tail lights that houses the license plate is flush except for the plate area making me think it is from the later end of that model run.

I'm betting you got this wrong. The A2/Mk2 Jetta as we know it US is STILL in production in China. I think they are calling it "King" now that they've updated grills and taillights again. Just like the old tooling went to RSA, they sent some to China well after production in VW's traditional market. On the plus side, it's a cool way to keep those of us with older VW's to keep them running. For example, there was a time when all these cool Audi style and strange looking door handles and nameplates were popping up on eBay. They were production pieces for the newest Chinese market Jettas. Smooth tail panel 1992? Maybe 2002 or later. Remember how Vanagons disappeared from dealer showrooms here and Europe in 1991/92 respectively? Well, they kept knocking out new ones with better equipment and engines until 2002.

It's hard to say what model year VW's are in other countries outside of Europe and North America. But with a little research, the confusion can be cleared in due time.

Cheers,

BenT

Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:46 am

It still would be a second generation Jetta even with current production in China and yet another name in the Volkswagen lexicon as long as it's still on the same platform. The edition of Volkswagens of the World I have has no reference to China. Maybe later editions do.

The Shanghai Passat seems to be on a unique platform altogether then based on this update. Very interesting.

Or maybe it was cobbled together using a variety of available bits from the parts bin.

There was a "Super Bug" assembled in South Africa circa 1976 that had a curved windshield but did not have the strut front suspension. It was even swing axle in the rear. It was its own animal although it still fit under the Type 1 umbrella.

Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:48 pm

oasis wrote: It still would be a second generation Jetta even with current production in China and yet another name in the Volkswagen lexicon as long as it's still on the same platform. The edition of Volkswagens of the World I have has no reference to China. Maybe later editions do.

Aha... If it's written by a fellow called Simon in Australia, I know him personally (online anyway) since the late 90's.
oasis wrote:
The Shanghai Passat seems to be on a unique platform altogether then based on this update. Very interesting.

VW liked to play musical nameplates. For ex. they badged some Eurovan's 'Vanagon' in Japan.
oasis wrote:
Or maybe it was cobbled together using a variety of available bits from the parts bin.

There was a "Super Bug" assembled in South Africa circa 1976 that had a curved windshield but did not have the strut front suspension. It was even swing axle in the rear. It was its own animal although it still fit under the Type 1 umbrella.

VW did that a lot too. In the Philippines, they sent knockdown Type buses from RSA which looked like the early splitties but had Loaf van windshields and higher roofs. Hybrid design. Think Samba with a big window.

Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:37 pm

Cool stuff ... and, yes, Simon Glen. Out of the 30-40 books I have, it is one of five I didn't put into cold storage while trying to sell the house. I haven't fetched an updated one (I'm 90% sure there's at least one later edition), but I always like to look and imagine a 30-car garage. :wink: :lol:

Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:56 pm

oasis wrote: Cool stuff ... and, yes, Simon Glen. Out of the 30-40 books I have, it is one of five I didn't put into cold storage while trying to sell the house. I haven't fetched an updated one (I'm 90% sure there's at least one later edition), but I always like to look and imagine a 30-car garage. :wink: :lol:

No you don't. The goal is to improve the quality by reducing the size. Unless you're Jay Leno and have a team of professional mechanics and fabricators at your beck and call. JL, I ain't. Just another Dub addict.

Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:11 pm

BenT Syncro wrote: Two years ago, I was garaging 27 vehicles, a hovercraft, & several trailers. It was daunting to babysit all those cars and still have a life.
:lol: Great perspective. I guess I was imagining being rich, too. :wink:

Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:16 am

oasis wrote: BenT Syncro wrote: Two years ago, I was garaging 27 vehicles, a hovercraft, & several trailers. It was daunting to babysit all those cars and still have a life.
:lol: Great perspective. I guess I was imagining being rich, too. :wink:

Yep, the economy took a cue from singer Boy George. IIRC, he sang, "...I'll tumble for you..." :wink:

Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:32 pm

Well, I'm back from another trip to Kunming. Some more pics of VW's

Another new MG:

And while I was in a small 2RMB store (Like a 99 cent store here) I came upon a cool sticker of the bubble head guy stomping, of all things, a Lexus. In all my travels in China, I've never even seen a Lexus :shock: Lots of Toyota's, but no Lexus.

-dasdachshund

Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:52 pm

It's for sure that all of the body tooling for the Quantum went to China. I actually managedto get a new driver's door, complete, for my QSW, that was made in China. Of course, VW closed that life line for Quantum owners pretty quickly. VW is into forced obsolesence, believe me.
I'd LOVE to be able to get window glazing rubber...or ANY rubber parts for my '87 QSW.

Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:30 pm

Cool pics!

Any updates?

:)