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Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:09 am

I'm looking for any bus handling tips that I might have missed

Front; Big sway bar, negative camber (how? with the shims?), lowered spindles, stock beam w/ disc brakes. I was thinking of boxing the trailing arms and the beam, but I'm not sure about that.

Rear; camber compensator, SA Kit, lower in the back than front.

Sticky tires, Blistiens all around.

Is there an adjustable coilover kit available for Splits in the US? There's one in Europe. And Red9 A Arms would be great, but the cost/shipping is a little much for what you get.

Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:29 pm

Dont ya hate when noone answers your question? No tricks, just dial everything in to spec and add some stiff sidewall tires and they handle pretty darn good for a dinosaur. I added a front sway bar to my 61 and that was a very nice upgrade

Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:43 pm

stock height.
all steering components in good shape.
good tires

add this:

before:

after I was taking corners easily 10 mph faster than before:

Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:19 pm

kyb "white" gas shocks...made the most noticible improvement on my bus

Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:55 pm

I noticed an improvement in handling when I went from KYBs to Bilsteins.

Clara -- have you noticed a difference in off-road ability after putting on the camber compensator?

Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:12 pm

drive slower :wink:

Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:38 am

I noticed an improvement when I converted to disc brakes. I should wait to see how many people ponder that last statement...............give up? :lol:
Adding the disc brakes got rid of the wide 5 pattern which I still wanted. So I also added the Wheel adapters. I think the adapters came from wolfgang. Anyway that increased my front wheel base a inch. I didnt know it at the time but it sure made a stability difference.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:35 am

blitzkrieg59 wrote: I noticed an improvement in handling when I went from KYBs to Bilsteins.

Clara -- have you noticed a difference in off-road ability after putting on the camber compensator?
no I haven't.
I haven't done any offroading in that bus since it was installed. Installed it right before the trip to LA for the June 2010 OCTO/ Classic and back, and then did a little local driving. Been rocking the BFKAT Cragar Kombi mostly.

Talking about a wide stance... driving with the wider front wheel offset of the Cragars on the kombi made it feel like it was riding on rails going down the freeway. amazing.
However, turning was harder. Is this good for handling?

It did cause some stress on the steering shaft.
We did have to replace the steering shaft, as it was wallered out at the keyway for the steering wheel when we got the bus. That mde me feel extremely unsafe, when the wheel would shift on the shaft. :shock:

I would drive EXTREMELY slow in parking lots, and when turning corners.
I am considering getting some drums drilled and studded so I can apply the Cragars directly to the front drums, and ditch the spacers.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:14 am

are there aftermakret camber compensators still available?

Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:32 am

Considering making my own camber compensators..out of leaf springs. Or possably contacting a spring shop. Also saw a bitchen sway bar at summit racing in the returned material shelves, although they wanted a shitload of money even though the dam thing was a return, the swaybar was for a 4x4 ford. Perfect U shape to it. I know I could adapt that to work.
A camber compensator still is a spring which will affect the overall spring ability of the bus. A sway bar wont affect spring load. At least thats what I gather from that last picture

Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:43 am

I am kind of surprised EMPI has not repopped that item.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:53 am

make sure all your bearings, spring plate bushings, link pins, center pin and tie rods are all in tip top shape will make a world of difference

Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:19 pm

quartermilecamel wrote: I noticed an improvement when I converted to disc brakes. I should wait to see how many people ponder that last statement...............give up? :lol:
Adding the disc brakes got rid of the wide 5 pattern which I still wanted. So I also added the Wheel adapters. I think the adapters came from wolfgang. Anyway that increased my front wheel base a inch. I didnt know it at the time but it sure made a stability difference.

I agree, the wider the front track, the better it handles. I had a split bus with a 68 beam (wider track) and disc brakes, nice handling bus.

I usually drive slow (hardly over 70KM/hr) but I like to turn and stop :)

edit; I forgot the urethane bushings for the torsions, and whatever bushings that can be replaced. It's been recommended to keep the rubber mounts for the tranny though. Anyone have experience with metal mounts?

Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:44 pm

hmmm metal mounts. I wouldnt recommend those unless your racing. Do you like noise? Those metal mounts will transfer every bit of noise through the body. Had a 67 bug that somebody put eurothane mounts in. I swore I could hear everything but the spark jumping the plug gaps.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:02 pm

Snoop Bob wrote: I am kind of surprised EMPI has not repopped that item.

The do but not like the one Clara has. http://www.jcwhitney.com/camber-compensator-swing-axle-for-volkswagen/p2005946.jcwx

Clara where did you get yours? The one pictured above is what I have and I've used it on my DC with a straight axle and now going to install it on my Kombi with a big nut RGB tranny. I just don't feel good about putting any stress on the tranny bolts needed to hold the EMPI part in. I like your set up much better.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:04 pm

^^^ Those camber compensators work well ,but you're right, they put all of the stress into the tranny mounts. The style that Clara has is better, but I don't think are available any more. Should not be hard to fabricate a different mount.

Camber compenstors and sway bars will inhibit off-road performance. They fight downward action of the wheel, which is often what is needed off road. It's called articulation.

As has been said, make sure all of your suspension components are in top condition, and you have quality tires that have proper inflation. Anti-sway bars work wonders, too. Quality shocks will certainly help.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:23 pm

RobzKombi wrote: Snoop Bob wrote: I am kind of surprised EMPI has not repopped that item.

The do but not like the one Clara has. http://www.jcwhitney.com/camber-compensator-swing-axle-for-volkswagen/p2005946.jcwx

Clara where did you get yours? The one pictured above is what I have and I've used it on my DC with a straight axle and now going to install it on my Kombi with a big nut RGB tranny. I just don't feel good about putting any stress on the tranny bolts needed to hold the EMPI part in. I like your set up much better.

Vintage EMPI from back in the day. Cost more than that new one. Good for twisty mountain roads.

I think the main thing for good handling is to have your steering components, tires & brakes in good order.
If it has worn out shit it drives like worn out shit.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:33 pm

RobzKombi wrote: Snoop Bob wrote: I am kind of surprised EMPI has not repopped that item.

The do but not like the one Clara has. http://www.jcwhitney.com/camber-compensator-swing-axle-for-volkswagen/p2005946.jcwx

Clara where did you get yours? The one pictured above is what I have and I've used it on my DC with a straight axle and now going to install it on my Kombi with a big nut RGB tranny. I just don't feel good about putting any stress on the tranny bolts needed to hold the EMPI part in. I like your set up much better.

One good thing about the one pictured above is that you can remove it with just one bolt (the center pivot bolt) -that way you can remove it for better articulation offroad, if need be... when the bus is still and level, the crossbar isn't under alot of stress, but it sure helps stop mega positive camber wheel tuck in corners, thus improving the ride and safety...

I wouldn't worry about the trans bolt mounting to much, as far as strength though, unless the trans case is badly corroded around the stud base. A good friend of mine has been running this style for at least 10 years of hard driving with a stout 2.0L and its still A1.

The older (original empi style) is obviously far superior to the ones out now...

The same limiting effect can be done with limiting straps also... (like the offroader use).

Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:05 pm

When interested in reducing body roll, a sway bar is really the only choice.

A sway bar will reduce body roll.
A Camber Compensators will prevent wheel tuck.

A sway bar will counteract the body roll, a Camber Compensator will exacerbate it.
Conversely, a Camber Compensator will counteract wheel tuck where a sway bar will exacerbate it.

Imagine turning right in your bus. The body tends to roll to the outside of the corner (left) due to centrifugal force. This has the effect of raising the outside wheels in relation to the body- and lowering the inside wheels, resulting in body roll.
A sway bar, or more correctly an anti sway bar, counteracts this force by raising the inside wheel, when the outside wheel is raised, counteracting the body roll and keeping the bus reasonably flat.
The way the Camber Compensator is designed, it actually enhances the body roll. As the outside wheel is rising around our right hand corner, the compensator actually lowers the inside wheel. It is just a teeter totter on a fulcrum.

Now, in the case of wheel tuck, pretty much the opposite is happening. Because of the design of the swing axle, on hard cornering, the outside wheel can actually be pushed down (around its' axis of rotation) rather than being pushed up. In this case, the Camber Compensator actually compensates for the camber by pulling up the inside wheel which couteracts the tuck on the outside wheel.

This is what the camber compensator is designed to do - prevent tuck, not reduce body roll.
In the tuck situation, the sway bar would push down on the inside wheel which would tend to push the bus farther to the outside, exacerbating the body roll and the problem.

The reason that all newer vehicles have sway bars instead of Camber Compensators is because sway bars actually reduce body roll and Camber Compensators do not.
The best set up for handling on a swing axle rear is a sway bar AND limiting straps.

This way you get the anti body roll benefits of the sway bar coupled with the anti tuck benefits of the limiting straps.

Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:43 pm

Nicely put Riff Raff.

My first suspension upgrade was the addition of a front swaybar, the camber compensator came later.

Installing a front swaybar will be a night and day difference. I've installed them in all of my buses and will continue to install them on my future buses.