TheSamba.com :: View topic - Easier Replacement Water cooled Porsche engine?

Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:51 pm

thinking of putting a water cooled in my 411
the tranny is the same as my fasty (003 auto)
and this is a more frequented forum

*the 411 is a saloon so No engine cover or space issue

whats the best engine to use
porsche, vw or subaru

would a FR porsche be an easy swap
would a diesel even work or hook up properly
what good VWs are FR set up
do they make adapters for all of these engines?

Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:11 pm

no question. subie is the only way to go.

Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:45 pm

No such thing as an "easy" engine swap - there's always a bit of re-engineering to be done. In this case, do the Subaru. You'll be able to keep your engine in the original place, and since it has been done before, you can look to others for help. Main thing is always finding a cooling solution that works, but the easiest is to hack a big hole in the front of the car for the radiator, and a way for air to exit behind in. Also known as a "spare tire compartment".

Good luck

Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:30 am

This will not be simple at all.
The 411/412 is not even remotely related in chassis construction to any of the other air cooled VW's.

It has no pan. It is a monocoque style construction with integral floor....and it has front and rear crumple zone points that when cut through can cause body collapse.....so running big hoses can be a big deal.

The only place where a radiator can be installed in the front end is in the spare tire well.....so this will either be a small square radiator that fits within the circle of the tire well with a piggyback pan....much like they did one version of the factory air conditioning system.........which will be far to small to cool the engine, or.....you can use the spare tire well and the under front end recesses under each headlight to insatll 3 small radiators of about 16"X 2" X12".....in series....a plumbing nightmare.

There is still the issue of how to make the crossing from the tunnel area...in which there is no room for a supply and return water tube....across the front suspension subframe.....of which there is no clearance for this.....too reach the radiator.

Your only option is to run hot water tubes flanking on each side of the tunnel...inside of the car.....entering the trunk through the footwells.....which happens to be cutting holes through the crumple zone area...and will make the car extremely hot inside.
Running the tubes under the floor on the outside is not and option. t he clearnce of the center floor area is about 6.5" on the downstroke of a mild bump....and about 5" at bottom out.

Shark.....why are you contemplating this? 8) Ray

Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:42 am

whats wrong with using the type 4 motor? You could build a mild 2L mine, they go pretty good, and no hacking of your car.

the 924/944 motor isn't all that exciting
928 is a v8...
if you got to have a radiator then a scooby motor is the best out of those options

KEP makes adapters for all the above

Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:10 am

Cost no object, Subaru EJ25 STi motor. Most of your money would be trying to make the transmission not explode at 2psi. Also, you'd need to figure out how to stuff some large brakes under it to get it to actually stop.

Realistically, I'd go TDi with it.

Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:55 pm

ok
first the radiator would be in the spare tire *Where the condensor for the A/C is now

OR
because my 71 has vents in the front(for some reason)
i could mount 2 smaller ones there

and run the hoses Just like the ones for the A/C are
*altho they would have to be bigger

Maybe also if a subaru engine than maybe even put the radiator in the back
on bottom of the hatch

right where the saloon fan shroud is

and the reason behind Not a T4 engine
is i will take it out to clean it
but i am also thinking about selling Just the engine
i think a late 80s or early 90s subaru engine
Nothing over 150hp or so
*trying to do this with an Auto

but it would be fun to have a 150hp 411 to putter around in

NOW grafting in an entire TDI Front wheel drive would be fun
But just looking for a small carbed subby or a deisel

Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:08 am

Quote: Realistically, I'd go TDi with it.

Realistically, if i was him, i'd first try to get the car into a decent driving shape, sort the bent hood and decide, if i was going to keep the car or not... After all that done, i might start to plan something as complicated as converting to Subaru engine or similar :?

Sorry, had to say that :oops:

-Pirkka-

Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:36 am

realistcally
the car runs and drives fine

i was thiking it would zip around my fasty
but with a smaller stroke and different final in the Auto tranny
its good but not as quick as my T3

if i sell it Fine
If i keep it Fine
might be selling Engine out of it
so might as well make some cash and still have 99% of the car to tinker with

im thinking a smal subby with anything over 125hp
carburated
Simple and easy

Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:17 am

Points well taken! The louvers you show and the place where the condensor is....is exactly where I was pointing out that you would actually need a radiator....and actually one in all three.

Bear in mind that the spare tire well is 26" in diameter. With tanks on the sides...you will not be able to fit a radiator much larger than 18" square in that hole. Discounting tanks as cooling area....that leaves a radiator of about 12" by 18".

This is not large enough to cool a subaru engine or any other. The actual space allowed in the two areas under the lovers is roughly 11" wide and 3" deep and about 16" long.

You would need a radiator in all three places. The two under the louvers would need to be slanted in these spaces to vent rearwards...and there is no space for fans.

Also...there is no way to vent air from the radiator in the spare tire well...not at the volume required for a radiator. The condensor there barely works as it is. Its aspecial compound design condensor with two rows and the leading edge angled one wasy and the rearward half louvered the other. It has a dome above it. Air passes through the front half of the condensor, defelects from the dome and passes out the rear half of the condensor. So 50% of the condensor actually gets cooled with preheated air from the front half.

But...the idea of putting a radiator in the rear fascia below hood has merit and possibilities.

Its much much much easier and cheaper to simply build a 150 hp type 4 engine. Ray

Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:32 pm

an EJ22 or a EJ25 would be great

Im wondering if i can find a 130+hp subaru that i can carb

and if i could get intake and carbs
what would it do to the Power/Tq/mpg

i guess i could buy a bigger T4 or have one built
but im Really not seeing the Trouble in putting a suby in
the biggest thing would be the Radiator but im pretty sure i can accomplish that..i have some ideas...
and if i can carb it that helps in the ease as well
less wiring