TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun May 22, 2011 1:45 pm

I recently had a problem starting my 74 Thing. It will jump start and run, but when turned off, it will not restart. The battery seems fine and I cleaned all the connections. The ground seems fine and is connected without any corrosion. Also, when I connect the positive cable to the battery, small static like sparks appear. The positive cable has a green wire protruding not connected to anything. It has a yellow tip cap. There are also a few brown wires underneath (not connected to the positive cable) with an unconnected prong? Any assistance is appreciated.

http://web.me.com/dfranko/Site/Battery_Green_Wire.html

Sun May 22, 2011 2:24 pm

Don't know what the green wire is for. May be for a different application. Not a good idea for to to be floating about like that. All it has to do is hit any part of the chassis and you will get a shower of sparks.

I believe the two brown wires in the picture go to pins 31 and 8 on the defunct diagnostic plug (No longer needed). Never a good idea to put any brown wire to a + connection. Brown usually indicates some sort of ground for a VW.

Sun May 22, 2011 3:42 pm

when you say battery seems fine, what do you mean? did you have it tested? is your charging system working?
Those wires in the pic are not the root of your problem. Im gonna say bad battery or bad charging system.

a hillbilly way to check the charging system is to pull the NEG cable while the car is running, if it dies, you have a charging issue, if not, look into your battery.

Sun May 22, 2011 4:26 pm

sometimes when the car gets too hot it wont start for about five to ten minutes. you might need a hard start relay, i happen to have one, pmail me or you have a bad ground cable check where it bolts to body

Sun May 22, 2011 5:09 pm

My starting has always been a cold start. I still have no idea what the green wire is for from the positive cable? I will secure it. Thanks for the information about the brown wires. I was going to retest the battery and was loosening the ground cable and the connector snapped in half. So I need a new ground cable connector now. The ground did look secure before it snapped. I can still jump start it. Maybe I should replace both connectors and get rid of the strange green wire.

Sun May 22, 2011 5:22 pm

check all cable connections, those small wires dont do much..
the reason why you can jump start is is because you are putting extra voltage on it, most likely you need to unscrew the connection into the body on the ground cable and clean it then reattach it. so you might as well do all of them while you are there

Sun May 22, 2011 5:29 pm

The ground replacement looks simple to replace. How hard is it to replace the positive cable? Does anyone have battery connectors for sale?

Sun May 22, 2011 5:41 pm

you probably only need to clean the connections, you will have to clean it even if you get new cables. I might have a used connector as well as the cables if you really want to

The postive cable goes under the car to the starter you will need a 13 mm socket. to get it off make sure you take the battery cables off first

Mon May 23, 2011 2:22 am

norcalmike wrote:
a hillbilly way to check the charging system is to pull the NEG cable while the car is running, if it dies, you have a charging issue, if not, look into your battery.

This is a great way to ruin an alternator. Do yourself a favor....Use a voltmeter.

Mon May 23, 2011 2:32 am

Dfranko wrote: I recently had a problem starting my 74 Thing. It will jump start and run, but when turned off, it will not restart. The battery seems fine and I cleaned all the connections. The ground seems fine and is connected without any corrosion. Also, when I connect the positive cable to the battery, small static like sparks appear. The positive cable has a green wire protruding not connected to anything. It has a yellow tip cap. There are also a few brown wires underneath (not connected to the positive cable) with an unconnected prong? Any assistance is appreciated.

http://web.me.com/dfranko/Site/Battery_Green_Wire.html

This is an indication that something is "ON" and causing a draw. Make sure the key is OFF, Remove a battery cable and insert a 12v NON LED test light between the cable and the now empty battery post. The light should remain off. Test your connection by turning on the headlights. They will not light up but the test light will. Turn off the headlights, the test light goes out.
If the test light goes on with everything off, remove the fuses one at a time to isolate the circuit causing the draw. If the light continues to illuminate with the fuses out try disconnecting the alt/gen/volt reg.

Modern radio memory circuits do not draw enough to light the test light.

Mon May 23, 2011 6:03 am

Thanks Dan. I will test using the test light.

Mon May 23, 2011 6:25 am

dan macmillan wrote: norcalmike wrote:
a hillbilly way to check the charging system is to pull the NEG cable while the car is running, if it dies, you have a charging issue, if not, look into your battery.

This is a great way to ruin an alternator. Do yourself a favor....Use a voltmeter.

How does it ruin my Generator?

Mon May 23, 2011 6:28 am

Dfranko wrote: The ground replacement looks simple to replace. How hard is it to replace the positive cable? Does anyone have battery connectors for sale?

If your ground snapped off that easily it could very well be a bad ground. See what happens after you repair it.

I would not even bother with a new connector on that battery (+) cable. Just buy a new cable. Since the starter is right there its inexpensive and easy to replace.

That small wire coming off of the + terminal is typically used for an accessory requiring a high draw. On my car I have that wire hooked to my winch mounted at the front of the car with and in-line fuse. As I recall its a 10 gauge wire and the winch required that size.

Mon May 23, 2011 8:41 am

Remember, the battery is grounded to the chassis under the back seat bench, but the starter is grounded to the chassis at the front of the transaxle by a braided strap bolted to the driver's side frame horn. You will have to take a dive under the car to check it, but next time the problem occurs, you could connect one jumper cable between the engine or transaxle case and the chassis or to battery - to verify that the transaxle, engine and starter are adequately grounded.
Take NOVA's advice and avoid the Mickey-Mouse replacement battery terminals; it's better (and cheaper) to fix it right the first time.
Good luck, Mondshine

Tue May 24, 2011 6:15 am

I had the battery tested and it tested good. I then had it charged. So something must be drawing power from it. I then purchased a new negative cable. I am going to install it this evening. On a side note, when this problem first started, I noticed that my wiper motor stopped working so I am not sure if that is drawing power?

Wed May 25, 2011 9:05 am

I hooked up the new negative cable. It started up fine. I will then check the battery at the end of the day to see if it is draining. Thank you all for your assistance.

Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:05 pm

I just had this problem too.

Last weekend, I fired up Hermann and went into town. There was a car show Saturday, so I stopped by. A nice Corvair was the only thing I really liked :lol: One of the guys asked me if I was displaying......and I told him I was just on my way to the grocery store. When I came out of the store and turned the key.......nothing :!: The two red lights went on OK, but not even a "click" from the starter :roll: Well, a couple guys in the lot were "old" VW owners. The lot slopes, so they gave me a little push, and Hermann started right up on the clutch.

When I got home, I ran through the "Bug Me" electrical troubleshooting video and went out and removed all the connections (except one, see below), cleaned them, replaced, and tightened them. Turned the key, and "vroom" off he goes :)

On Wednesday, I drove him over to my "disciplinary hearing" at the Edgemont depot. He started right up in the garage. When I came out of the depot, after getting my "hand slapped", I turn the key......nothing again :roll: Well, I get a little push-start, and drive home. The only connection I didn't mess with the first time was the chassis end of the battery/chassis black ground wire. After reading this thread, I'll re-do that when I get home tomorrow.

So.....a question. On the trip home after the weekend failure, before I'd done the "cleaning", my Conductor suggested it might be a "dead spot" on the starter commutator. I kind of doubt it, account he cranked right over after I cleaned everything, but I'm open to suggestions and advice.

Thanks,

BNMike

Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:31 am

The Starter got hot most likely you need a hard start relay kit

Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:24 pm

[email protected] wrote: The Starter got hot most likely you need a hard start relay kit

Thanks, Mike.....I have one of those, just not yet installed. It was in the high 90's both days.

I also have a crank, nut, tin cover flap and "keyhole" plate. I need to get that stuff put on too :lol:

BNMike

Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:55 am

One of the fellows who gave me a little push at the Grocery said something about "getting hot", that must have been what he meant.

So, this morning, I went out and tried to start him, and still nothing happened :shock: It can't be still hot, it's been sitting there for a few days, and it was nice and cool in the garage. I wonder if my battery ain't up to it :?: I don't know how old it is, so I put the battery conditioner on it while we got to Rapid City this morning. We'll see how that works.

BNMike