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Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:26 pm

first i d,t need the extra heathing in my 412,, i use my 412 only during the summer time,, and i use the extra fan for to push the air in the heather box,,for to push fresh air in the motor department,, i have remoove the 2 big hoses on the heather box and close the hole on the heather box with cover and i put a thermostat of 140 dgr,fr. for to start the fan and cooling the top of the motor,, or motor room,, that make a funny time,,that cooling the motor wend the motor is stop,,what doo you thing of that,, some commentair,,,cheers ,,bb412

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:48 am

afther 3500 mills in the sud of usa for 2 weeks on the hot weather 90-100-105 dg,fr, my new cooling fan work fine ,, the motor room in my 412 wagon stay at 140 dr,fr, a big changement,, for the hot contry,, cheers,,bb412

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:49 am

afther 3500 mills in the sud of usa for 2 weeks on the hot weather 90-100-105 dg,fr, my new cooling fan work fine ,, the motor room in my 412 wagon stay at 140 dr,fr, a big changement,, for the hot contry,, cheers,,bb412

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:50 am

sorry for the double click,,bb412

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:58 am

what exactly did you do?

Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:42 am

hi,, my 412 is an wagon 73,, and in the wagon we have a fan in the rear fender and 2 big hoses for to push more air in the heather box,, i have close the hole in the heather box with a steel cover very hermétic,, ( WITH METAL COVER ) and i keep the 2 big hoses for to shoot the fresh air on the motor head,,on the injector valve,( example ) one big hose for heach side ,, and i have a mécanic thermostat,,like beemetal thermostat at 140 or 150 dgr,fr, ( you can use a dash swith for that ) and the thermostat ( or dash swith ) geeve the power 12 volts on the fan motor,,my thermostat is glue on the motor block or steel cover for the piston,wend the motor room is over of 140-150 the fan start for cooling the motor room and injector and the rest,, the positive pressure ( hot air ) inside the motor room is shoot out of the car by all the small holes,onder the car,, and wend you stop your car ( with the thermostat mode ) the fan continius to run for 5-10 minutes for cooling the motor room, with the thermostat, the fan can start and stop wend the motor room is over of 150 dgr.fr. wend you stop your car for couple hrs,,the fan can start and stop 2-3 time, for to make sure the motor room is onder 150 dgr,fr, you can buy this model of thermostat for home cloth dryer with différent dgr.fr. 135 to 180 dgrfr. ( 10-15$ ) for my contry i preefair the thermostat at 140 dg,fr, depend were you live you can use a différent dgr.fr. if you use the thermostat at 130 dgr.fr. the fan can run 30 minutes afther the motor is stop for long time,, that make a big changement for to cooling the motor,, wend the motor case is more cold the oil is more cold,, this is my expérience ,,i thing that is a good option,, cheer,,bb412

Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:15 am

This is a very good thread. Having lived in Texas and Oklahoma for a long time I can also attest to just how hot the engine space in 411 and 412's get.
The injectors get very hot...though its not really an issue about fuel temps. Its about running and sealing and pressuer stability. Even more of an issue is the fact that coil and ignition get very hot. This causes lots or issues at highway speed. Nice idea Albert! Ray

Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:47 am

thanks RAY,,for your support,, one thing is sure if we geeve more fresh air in the motor room , all the componens are cooling,, and they geeve a betther performance,, one remark,,attention of the hot air from the muffler wend the fan run,, the fan push the hot air from the muffler too , outside of the car,, keep a good distance of the muffler,, and d,t park your car in the long lawn, the hot hair can burn the lawn,, in the original situation the hot air from the muffler go inside the motor room,,with the fan the hot air is push on the ground,,cheer,,bb412

Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:31 pm

I had a '74 wagon that did that. I thought it was a malfunction. The heater blower would run for about 5 min. or so after turning the engine off.

chrismo

Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:28 am

Chris Walden wrote: I had a '74 wagon that did that. I thought it was a malfunction. The heater blower would run for about 5 min. or so after turning the engine off.

chrismo

The heater blower runing for five minutes after shut down is normal. That is the circulation fan and turbo blower for the gas furnace that must run until all fuel is combusted and the thermocouple is cooled off. This is a function of the heater only and nothing to do with engine compartment conditions. Ray

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:49 am

exact,,RAY,, for me i d,t need the gas heather i use my car only for the summer time,, if i want to remoove the humidity in the windshield, the fan on the motor and the heather box geeve me plenty of heat for the weather at 40-50 drg,fr.i use the fan in the fender for cooling the engine compartment,,for a hot weather,, i have remoove the yellow wirer on the motor fan ( in the fender ) and i take my 12 volts from the red fuse in the motor compartment, the 12 volts is controle with the thermostat at 140 dg,fr. my thermostat start ,,on,,,afther 140,, wend we buy a thermostat we have need to buy a thermostat normal close at 130-140-150- depend what you need,, for me i thing 140 is correct,, he can keep the motor just warm for a good restart,, afther 15-20 minutes,, bb412

Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:04 pm

Quote: The heater blower runing for five minutes after shut down is normal. That is the circulation fan and turbo blower for the gas furnace that must run until all fuel is combusted and the thermocouple is cooled off. This is a function of the heater only and nothing to do with engine compartment conditions. Ray

That sounds plausible, Ray, however, my '73 sedan didn't do that. Also, I recall this happening in the summer time when the heater hadn't been used.

chrismo

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:05 am

Actually its not just plausible...thats the way its designed and its in the books. But there can be odd variations.

The heater fan(s) will not always run after shutdown. Its directly dependent upon the chamber temperature when you shut off the engine. If you were in mid-flame with the fuel pump running...chances are the fan will run.
If it was in a cooling cycle between fuel pump runs...chances are it will not. Both fans run at the same time. The system cannot ram if the external blower circulator fan is not engaged by lifting the left hand heater lever and opening the ducts.

If the fan runs regardless of the heater being in use....you should first find out which fan is running. Is it the auxiliary blower that connects to the heat exchangers or the turbo blower?

There are three instances that I know of that can cause the fans to run when the heater is not in use:

(1) bent or damaged terminals at the thermocouple probe or a thermocouple probe that is way out of calibration. If its hot outside and teh chamber is marginally hot....that bi-metallic probe can make contact actuating the quad relay..causing the turbo fan to run.

(2) The circulating blower is hooked up to an incorrect power source...causing it to run full time....but it should not run when the car is shut off.

(3) The ground for the fan lever is shorted to ground full time. This has happened to me before. Even in summer with the fan lever down and ducts closed....if the ground makes conact.....any movement of the green knob even by accident will cause the heater to run. With teh ducts closed, this heat vents to open air. You will not feel teh heat but the heat can be on.

Its fairly common for PO's to pull power to the quad relay when trying to make the heater run. But it causes problems like this. Check your wiring carefully and lok for splices and power inputs that are not on the wiring diagram. Ray

Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:20 am

On my 411 4dr there is a marked difference in engine compartment temperature with the big plastic "funnel" on the cooling fan inlet removed. Virtually everything in the engine compartment, including the fan shroud ends up being cooler this way. Though I usually run with the funnel in place, I think it hurts little to run with it removed and might actually help the engine run cooler in a hot climate. Of course a wagon is set up differently.

I have also thought about insulating the entire intake air system as much as reasonably possible, as by the time the intake air reaches the heads it is already quite hot. If you could get the temperature down considerably then you should be able to get more air into the cylinders and get a bit of extra oomph pretty much for free.

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:46 am

hi,,wildthings,,for sure the type 4 ,,4 drs,, is more différent with the wagon,, on the wagon many big hoses ( for the fan on the wagon,) are full of holes or crack with the time,, and wend the heathing damper are close,onder the car at the end of the heather box,the hight pressure from the motor fan shoot the hot air from the heather box inside the 2 big hoses,, ( wend the damper are close the hot air in the heather box is shoot onder the car ) for that you have a flap door on the fender fan motor,, and if we keep the 2 big hoses for extra air for heathing we have need to make sure the 2 big hoses are new, or close very hermetic,, for my technick,, i make sure the 2 big holes on the top of the heather box are close hermétic with a steel cover like a jarr cover with rubber seal inside,,, for to stop the reebound of the air from the fan motor,,and the fender fan motor shoot the fresh air on the motor head includ injector or motor case,, and the positive pressure inside the motor compartment is shoot out by many small orifices, the inlet tube for air and gas is more cold and the motor geeve betther performances,,with more fresh air inside the motor compartment we can reduce the weather inside the motor compartment of 100 dgr.fr. in the hot weather,, bb412

Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:26 pm

bb412 wrote: "...and the fender fan motor shoot the fresh air on the motor head includ injector or motor case,, and the positive pressure inside the motor compartment is shoot out by many small orifices,,, bb412

I would love to see a photo of this to help me visualize this. Thanks in advance

Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:23 am

hi,,Twinfin ,,sory,,i d,t can put my pict,on samba,, btw,, the tech is easy,, you remoove the 12v+ on your heather fan motor on the driver side in the motor room,,,( this is for the wagon ) you find an oder 12volt+ ,,on the red fuse ,wend the motor is stop,,,for to put in action the fan motor you have 2 solutions,, one with a swith on the dash,,, ( i d,t like that you can forget the fan ,,on ,,and put the battery down ) i prefair,, an thermostat,,beemétal blade,,,,10-15$ use in the ,,,domestic home cloth dryer,,,,conneted on your new wirer 12v+,, you can buy a thermostat for 150 drg.fr. ( we can buy 5-6 différent deg,fr, for domestic home dryer thermostat,,for me 180 is to hight,we can buy 300 dgr.fr. too,) btw,,a thermostat bitween 150 and 180 is correct,, and you screw the thermostat on the steel for the motor heat no.3,, or were you find a possible place for that on the motor in your car,, and afther you disconnet the 2 big hoses on the heather-box, and you close very hermétic, with steel cover, the hole from heather box,and you can live the 2 big hoses from the électric motor fan loose in the motor room,,for me i have one in direction of the piston no.3 and one in direction of of the piston no.1,,with the thermostat at 150 dgr.fr. wend the motor is at 150 dgr.fr. and more the thermostat start the électric fan,, and the fresh air from ,,inside the rear fender,,, is shoot in the motor room,, for to cooling that,, and wend you stop your car,, for a long time,,, the électric motor fan continious to run for apprx, 10-15 minute for to cooling the motor onder 150 dgr.fr.,, and afther the fan stop,, the stop time can varys with the dgr. on your thermostat,, example with a thermostat at 130 dgr.fr. the fan can run 1/2 hr,,afther,the car is stop,, very easy to doo,, and that geeve a big help for to cooling the motor room,,bb412

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:56 am

i repeet it is very important to close tightly,the 2 big hole from the heather box,, 1 is ovale 2"x3" onder the air filter and 1 is on the lefgth side 2" diameter NEVER PUT A RAG IN THE HOLE,, close that with a steel cover,,with no loose of hot air,,the thing is simple,, the crank fan push a fresh air in the heather box,, at 1 end of the heather box you have a damper,for to shoot the hot air in the car,, in the summer wend the damper is close the hot air is shoot onder the car ,, if the damper is defective, the hot air is shoot in this 2 big hoses,,by hight pressure in the heather box,, and if the hole is open the hot air return in the motor room,,if you want a pict. of that,,you can ask on the net for to buy ,,heather box,, for type2 or 411,, with the pict of the heather box you can see my description,,bb412

Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:54 pm

I am sure if you put the car back together as Wolfsburg intended it will work well in all temperatures!

All seals in place, all hoses correctly fitted will make the cooling air to do its job without problems!

These cars were designed to work from the Arctic to the African equator regions without overheating or over cooling.If the sump oil temperature does not rise much above 100 degrees Celsius for extended periods you will be OK.

Yes I have used these Type IVs, four of them.

Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:26 pm

yes ROD,, you are rith for many point, but tooday the ,,minéral oil is différent and the gas with no lead,, d,t help for cooling the systhem on the aircool motor, and an extra cooling fan is not a bad point too,,we know the compétitions in the years 60 with porsche or vw in the desert,,it was the winner,,