TheSamba.com :: View topic - Help me build my next T3 engine (dell tuning help)

Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:47 am

I am currently running a 1600cc with stock solex 32 PDSIT.

I am looking for some more HP, it is my daily driver 3 seasons of the year.

So I would like to keep the stock oil bath, 32PDSIT 's and add bus venturies, and the OTT exhaust with or without the heat exchangers.

I have an AS41 case to send to Brothers for the t3 full flow option and open it up for 90.5.

So what can I build and still retain the above while bumping the HP/torque up and staying under 5000rpm?

I was thinking
90.5 x 74
L3 stock valve ported heads
Compression?

Cam?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:01 am

I'm building something right now that sounds similar to what you are talking about with the exception of the carbs.

1904 74mm x 90.5mm
W100 Cam
1.25:1 Rockers (complete CB kit)
Stock rods
CB lifters
Stock 73 Type 3 heads P&P
Compression will most likely be 8:1 or 8.5:1
Dual 40mm Dell carbs
26mm HD oil pump

I'm running the OTT exhaust with J-Tube now and plan to transfer it to the new engine as well.

I solicited the help of a local VW engine builder to help with mine. That setup is what he suggested for a reliable setup with some additional torque and HP over stock that is tangible.

I don't have a ton of experience outside of stock builds but I'd guess the carbs will be the limiting factor in your setup above.

Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:08 pm

I ran 1914cc 69-94 in my 67 fasty single port dual 32s with the bigger vents.

Fk-41 cam w/1.25:1 street style rockers 8.7:1 compression.

ISP west over the top 1 3/8" header with heater boxes.

It was coupled to a 3.88:1 ring and pinion with a .89 fourth gear and ran 75 mph at 2900 rpm. It would do that speed all day with just the stock cooler and a 3 1/2 qt deep sump.

even at 75mph I could still stab it and it would set me back in the seat and would pull hard to 4500 rpm.

One of my favorite street engines.

Gary.

Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:02 pm

I have single port heads on my 1600cc right now but it might be easier to just order aircooled.net's L3 heads or DRD's L3 in dual ports.

Will I lose some bottom end going to the DP heads?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:20 pm

W1K1 wrote: stock solex 32 PDSIT.
OTT exhaust with or without the heat exchangers.
AS41 case full flow open it up for 90.5.

So what can I build and still retain the above while bumping the HP/torque up and staying under 5000rpm?

I was thinking
90.5 x 74
L3 stock valve ported heads
Compression?

Cam?

The 74mm crank with 90.5's is the better choice over 94's, especially in a Type 3. Torque will come on at a bit lower RPM too. An option would be thick wall 88's with the 74mm crank. DRD L3 heads will rock with an 1800 or 1904. For a cam the W100 is a good choice but don't undersell the CB Cheater cam. It will make good power and torque to 5k. Use it with the CB Lightweight Racing Lifters and 8.25:1 CR and you'll have a nice combo.

Add: good port work is far more important towards torque production than the configuration of the ports.

Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:56 pm

How much flow Do we get from modified Solex PDSIT ?
Where do the carbs top out rpm wise with a combo like this?
I know I came across something previously but didn't save the info and have searched for it to no avail. Maybe it was something mr harney posted.

I have always spent good money on heads to make sure they were making HP, we have small valved good flowing heads on both the 2110 engines we have in our beetles.

What would the performance difference be with the cheater cam and the w100. What is the part # for cb's cheater cam?

Thanks
Mark

Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:15 pm

Mark, is this the tech article you were referring to?

http://www.carburetorclinic.com./setting_up_solex_35_pdsits.htm

The P/N for the Cheater cam is #2280. Specs are 222/274 duration, 0.394" lift with stock rockers. W100 = 236/276, 0.420" lift.

Just for reference, the HVW's mileage motor (1745cc 85.5 x 76) made 92 HP and 120 ft/lbs with this cam and dual ICT Webers, 1 3/8" header, 009 and stock Mexican FI heads.

Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:21 pm

The CB cheater cam is part number 2280. It has slower ramps than the W100. In real world use one probably won't outdo the other in performance.

Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:32 pm

Okay, good info guys

one last thing before I pull the trigger on this ....

A pistons and 5.4 rods

or

B pistons and 5.5 rods

???

Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:36 pm

B pistons and 5.5" rods will keep engine width real close to stock. Pat Downs at CB Performance recommends this combo and has built many this way.

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:23 am

I'm about to send in my case for a line bore and the T3 full flow option at Brothers Machine, I'm thinking I should have the case decked to make sure it's true and wondering if there is something else I should get done or purchase at the same time?
So far I have my new DRD L3 heads and DP intakes for my PDSIT's but haven't purchased anything else yet.

so far the engine plan is:

90.5 b piston & cyl
5.5 rods
74 stroke crank
engle w100 cam, CB lightweight lifters
1.1/2 quart CB thinline sump
stock PDSIT carbs and oil bath
OTT exhaust and heat exchangers (i drive it all year or till they start salting the roads )
8.0:1 compression

Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:45 am

It's boxed up and ready to ship.

Nobody ?

Do I just send a list of things to do along with it to Brothers?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:37 pm

W1K1 wrote: It's boxed up and ready to ship.
Nobody ?
Do I just send a list of things to do along with it to Brothers?

Wait!!! Just kidding! Yeah, ship it to Bros. and let them do their thing. I'd call them and see if they recommend anything else - communication is the key to a successful business deal. Let them know it's on it's way to them, call when you think it should be there to see if it arrived OK, keep communications up. That's just me. If you keep on top of it you won't have any suprises and Bros. won't have any questions as to what exactly you want done.

Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:25 pm

Okay now i have the 90.5 B pistons and I put them on with the stock 69mm crank and stock 5.394" rods to see what we have for deck height.

.203" or 5.15mm
Subtract the difference of the 74 crank 2.5mm = 2.65mm or 1.04" deck height.

Now this was just a quick check with one cyl to see where were were so not super accurate by any means

So if i bought 5.4 rods we would be at 7.8 compression with no spacers or copper head gaskets.

Or with 5.5 rods we would be flush and adding spacers.

I better get some more accurate measurements with things snugged up.

One thing i did find out was using thick washers under the case bolts on a decked case will leave your pistons not sitting on the case.

Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:39 am

So it looks like 5.5" rods
After bolting the cylinders down and measuring with the mic we have
Deck height with 69 crank and stock 5.394" rods =.218"
Minus the difference in the 74 stroke .098" = .12"
Minus the change in rod length .106" = .014"
I will order .030" and .040" shims to go with my .040 and .090" shims i have and ther should be some combination that will work to get my compression where i want it.

Of course we get to do it all over when the crank and rod get here anyways. :D

Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:10 pm

Well, first part to not be up to spec is the schadek pump i just got.

Oil pump diameter 2.7555"
Case bore. 2.758"
Difference is. 0.0025"

Which simply means it drops in the hole when the case is torqued.
So i"ll order another, but i"ll either get an o-ringed one this time or have it measured before it's shipped.
This one i"ll save for the wifes engine, i want to swap out hers and i know her 30mm was a very snug fit. But i'll have to check the measurements from her engine case.

I was checking the cam end play and bearing clearance too, only .002 on the endplay and i can't find my plastigauge so i'll have to stop over at NAPA.

I measured the crank and rods last night and the DPR crank was good all round, and the CB i-beams measured up nicely with a new set of journal bearings

I put the crank and rods together today and checked the clearances with the case. Again the DPR crank proved to be a good investment because it clears everything, and the rods have had the clearance done already. So I have a few spots to clean up on the case where the machining left some jagged edges but nothing too tough.

This is a new one, the AA cylinders are actually touching each other :roll:
And there are a couple spots where the fins touch the case main nuts.

the pic of the oil pump an its slip fit into the case

I am also checking what kind of spacers I need with the cylinders to get the compression right.

So on the 1-2 side with a .010" and an .090" shim I am getting .079" and .077" deck height.
Added to the CB calculator with the other info:
heads 53cc
stroke 74mm
bore 90.5
the .077" puts us at 8.25:1 compression with the w100 cam and we are at 3048ft elevation.

I also have 2 sets of .040" and an .030" set of shims to play with.

Any Opinions on the compression?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:16 am

A look at the L3 heads, do i try removing some material to tighten the deck up?
I would really rather not, but...

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:24 am

what did your mains on the crank measure?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:35 am

First cut on the crank 2.155"
The clearance was #1 .003, .#2 .002", #3 .0025", #4. .002"

I'll have to do some mix and match on the pistons and rods. Checking with the same piston/cylinder i ended up with .077, .079, .075, and 074" on 1,2,4,3 in order with the .090 and .010" shims

Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:56 pm

Huh.. That's what mine was too. Can I ask what bearings your using ?