TheSamba.com :: View topic - Velvet Thread - saving a 21 window project with Ray Vallero

Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:04 am

Well, Velvet got her registration and plates in the mail and the dumba$$ DMV made her into a 1967. They said that the VIN# came up as a 1967, so that is what she is. NOT.

Here's her VIN and MCode plates:

They clearly show that she's a 1966 and that she was manufactured on May 12 (new model years started in August, right?). She came to me a 6-volt, '67 newly 12-volt. I also printed out this page of bus VIN #'s and will be taking all this and standing in the Line From Hell today.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/chassisdating.php

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:25 pm

I would guess it is in their system registered previously as a 67. It is usually very difficult to alter that once it is in. Good luck on getting it changed. Let us know how it works out.

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:37 pm

I had to go thru the same thing with my bus. DMV said they didn't have records going back that far so they said it would require a VIN Verify from the CHP and gave me a specific form to have them fill out. CHP verified the year and then I took that documentation back to the DMV to get it completed.

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:41 pm

Snoop: The bus had a clean WA title as a 1966 and was importing to SEA originally. I am in CA. I gave them that title, but they still required a VIN# check and said that the VIN# in the CA DMV system came up at 1967, so they changed the original title. The VIN says "6" right there at the beginning of the #! Duh.

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:46 pm

dsimas62 wrote: Snoop: The bus had a clean WA title as a 1966 and was importing to SEA originally. I am in CA. I gave them that title, but they still required a VIN# check and said that the VIN# in the CA DMV system came up at 1967, so they changed the original title. The VIN says "6" right there at the beginning of the #! Duh.

I know what the VIN says, but then if it says 6 right at the beginning but was Aug 1 or later then... If it was ever titled in Cali before Washington as a 67 and was still in there system, that will probably stay that way. If it never was registered in Cali prior and came straight from Washington as a 66 then that is definitely strange. It has been discussed here prior, but sometimes 66s that were sold later in 66-67 were titled as 67s. I am intrigued to hear the outcome from the hell trip today.

Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:04 pm

Any trip to the DMV is a "hell trip"!

Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:25 pm

I won! I brought the print out from this site that shows the date of manufacture and year model (indicating that the VIN# shows a 1966 model, made in May of '66, and the year not rolling over until August of 1966). New gal looked at the plate on the bus again. It was simply some sort of a mistake, so they said they'll be reissuing a new title. :D

Also, I don't believe the bus was ever registered in CA, but that certainly was a possibility. However, the cool part about this thread was finding more history on her through Darwin. He sent pics from 1994, 17 years ago. Pretty much the exact condition as now. Except it still had a sunroof. He bought it from a guy that got it out of a field in WA. That guy got it for $20. He got it for $500.

Thanks for the info and pics Darwin!!

Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:58 pm

The wiring, ignition, windshields/rubber, headlights/emergency flasher/wiper knobs, handbrake button, throttle pedal, shifter, dash tray, grab handle, horn button, steering column, floor mat, all put together now. Gave the dash a nice rub and the paint is beautiful:

What kind of guage are you using to the right of the speedometer?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:27 pm

That is an oil pressure gauge, non-op, from a PO. I got a VDO temp gauge 12v at a swap meet and will be swapping it into that hole when I get time. Hugo's engine had one, so the wiring is there. :)

Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:04 pm

The DMV news is awesome...glad to hear it. THE SAMBA RULES (said in a historic "O'Doyle Rules" tone).

Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:27 am

So, when we returned from BusFest, took a look under her skirt and saw that indeed we had even less bolts left in the springplates. We were down to one on one side and two on the other! Amazing old gal limped along and got Cat and I home though.

Some PO had done some hatchet job on them by welding, so Ray had to tap and drill and put some replacements in to get it to hold. He used bigger bolts than originals.

So, now that will hold better than stock. In the meantime, I found a tranny with axles and RGB's on CL from a fellow that raced and knew Ray back in the 80's. Got a good deal and so we can drive Velvet while that tranny is being rebuilt. :D

And the really amazing news: She has a 3rd gear after all! Initially, the shifter wouldn't even go in 3rd, so we have been driving her all along from 2nd to 4th, not TOO difficult since there's so much torque in the stock RG's, she's sort of like driving my Freightliner off the line skipping gears. :) But, when she was on the rack and Ray was thinking about how much rust was in that front floor pan, how he'd had to cut from the spare clip we got to even weld a section in order to bolt the shifer plate to... Sure enough, underneath that there was a lot of rust debris in the linkage. That is all that was keeping it from going into 3rd! Once that was discovered and cleaned up, we took her out and it does work just fine, but ONLY at acceleration, not decel, then she pops out. Takes a bit of practice, but as long as you don't take your foot off the throttle and slip the clutch a bit when putting it in, she has a working 3rd gear.

Then, I was running errands and, oops, she's dumping fuel! I mean dumping. I shut her down before I had a fire, thank goodness. Turns out the "new" fuel line that Ray got from Napa is already turning to mush for some reason and sprung a leak in the engine compartment. Velvet and I were dang lucky. Now she's sitting in his shop while he tries to find some suitable fuel line.

Next, that swaying and fishtailing needed to be addressed, so we adjusted the linkpins that were very sloppy. And lubed them and the kingpins and beam. Took several hours of work due to rust and binding, having not been done in decades, but we got grease in every single zerk. :) But, still haven't taken her for a test drive to feel the difference until we get new fuel line.

Since she's grounded, Ray wanted to improve on the stock brakes. The brakes are all brand new, but the pedal can be fabricated to be better, you really have to stomp it to get a response. So, to improve the leverage, he moved the hole a bit. Here's a series of pics, starting with the stock (oblong from wear) hole, he filled it, and redrilled one higher up.

Here's the new drag link that we installed a bit ago. And the fabricated throttle linkage above that. And here you can see the brake pedal arm that we are going to R&R and the new master cylinder:

Blasted and cleaned, showing old oblong worn hole:

Filled:

New hole:

Tada! And it didn't put the angle too offset into the master cylinder. If, after we test drive and want to go a bit more extreme, we can do it again and put it further up and remount the master cylinder to maintain the angle.

As soon as the fuel line is fixed, we'll get to see how much better this feels. :)

Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:33 pm

The consensus is the fuel line to use is anything marked 30R9. This is a FI hose that is made for fuels with ethynol. NAPA carries gates hose in 1/4 inch for the bus. They also carry others (30R7, etc.) so double check it. Make sure you get the 1/4 inch FI clamps also. They are marked 11-13mm on the clamp if I remember correctly. It's weird the hose you have has gone to pot already if it's fairly new.

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:18 pm

Thanks for the info Snoop. I passed this along to Ray and he found a supplier with Type 3 German FI line and replaced it with that. Napa said that what he had gotten from them was a bad batch and sort of just dissolved/turned to mush, it was also FI line. But he didn't want to buy from them again, so found the better stuff somewhere and she's all set now. :)

Took her out for a test drive and the front end is nicer, but still drifty and will need more attention. The linkpins seem bad, so that is next on the list once the kit comes in.

Hugo's 28 year old 1600cc motor that Ray built is the powerplant for the bus. It holds like 8 quarts of oil or so. To compensate for HP, we focused on cooling, to balance it out to a fast daily driver. It has a Berg deep sump, ext filter, 78 pass cooler, etc. When we swapped this motor into the bus, we were in a hurry for a Busfest deadline. The oil lines were hanging a bit and the cooler and filter were zip tied in. Time for a permanent setup. The high pressure hoses were braided (from ages ago) and I didn't have the money to do the lowest pressure one, which was still rubber. So, we replaced that one with braided line. And the angles of the hoses coming out of the filter were different than the bug, so Ray put in some brass 90 degree elbows so it all fits tight up against the undercarriage now.

Disassembly:

The lines are up above, rather than below the undercarriage now.

Also, while I'm under here (LOVE the rack at Ray's), I just wanted to point out the flanges on Hugo's exhaust. 28 years ago, Ray fabricated these and now they make them this way. Back in that day, they did NOT come this way. They inserted into one another. You can see the weld at the inside of the flange because he put it there. Building cars back in the 70's and 80's was a lot more work because Ray saw better ways to do things and fabricated everything. Now all you youngsters can buy things already built that way. :)

Also just a couple things I ran across:

How cool are the safari windows?

Happy Halloween everyone!

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:26 am

Ray was driving her home at night to work out any bugs before I could rely on her to get me to work daily while my daily, Hugo, is down for the count (new motor). What a magnet, he'd stop for dog food and have a crowd. People love these dang things. :)

But sure enough, one morning, the clutch goes in Colfax, 18 miles away from town where he lives. He drove her to work without one. I've done this with Hugo many times over the years, so nice to not be stranded.

That day was a work day for me, so I can't recall the exact issue. It wasn't the clutch actually, but the linkage and the cable completely flew off in recoil, does this sound right? He texted me that he only had about an hour to spare and in that span: He pulled the motor, fixed it, put the motor in, and drove her to Toyota for a parts delivery! Show off. :shock:

The logo on the side has paid for labor in dividends. Ray has a shop full of aircooled work, which is his heart and soul.

So I then took her to work for the first time, I commute 25 miles with a 1500' elevation climb each way, every day. She made the grade no problem. I need a "Slow Moving Vehicle" magnet on the back though. And she gets fishtaily with the front end issue still, combined with the camber in the back. Isn't this bus rated as a 1 ton? Carrying no weight and no interior, she sits high and very tucked up in back. Next on the list is lowering a notch to get her to sit pretty and straight.

Tucked in the warehouse at night to keep her safe.
Waiting patiently to carry me home. :)

"My other car is a...
Freightliner"

Work horse of the past, work horse of the present.

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:09 am

Next, to get her to sit pretty. I don't have the money, nor do I want to change the original setup too much, so I am not going with a bug box, long axles, drop spindles, or a narrowed beam. I just want the camber straighter and the bus to not want to flip when I turn/brake. I wish I'd taken a before picture from behind, but I didn't.

So, Robert Skinner and Ray agreed: turn the rear a notch and remove some leaf springs in the front to match the stance.

First, remove the shocks and the spring plate from the RGB.

Note the angle of the spring plate when stock, very low.

Removed the cover... oh, this is bad. Sort of what we suspected. Rusted completely solid. No turning this outer spline.

Took it out and the inner ones look great, so we will just turn the inner ones a notch on each side.

The left side was free on the outer end, not as much rust, this is what the other side should have looked like.

Put them back together and look what one little notch did? See the difference to where the spring plate sits on the bottom edge. There's a gap there now, as opposed to the picture above where there was no gap.

So, now on to the front end. The entire front suspension had to be taken apart and the bad news was that the link pins were shot. Sloppy, wiggly, lots of play. :( No wonder she wanted to wander.

And when Ray turned the wheel to get a better angle at disassembling, the brake line cracked clean through! No saving that, so he just cut them off, put vice grips on to hold the fluid. The ID of the line was sooooo tiny, no wonder I had to stomp the dang pedal to stop.

Here's the leafs (or is it "leaves"?). We removed the 3 small upper and lower ones and left the 3 center ones. I am hoping the stance will match the back about right.

If it's too stiff, we'll put some back in, or I'll get drop spindles. I can only go so low before the stock wheels will rub. But this was our first choice and didn't cost anything to try. And the bonus is that the linkpins/kingpins will be replaced and the brake lines, which needed to be done and we weren't aware. But I can't even drive it yet because now we are waiting for parts.

Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:58 am

pulling leaves isn't the decent way to lower a bus...

Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:51 am

First off, I love the bus! And kudos for keeping the original paint!!

I'm sure you've done some research about how to lower the front end of your bus, but I have to agree with Sancho; there are safer and only slightly more expensive ways to get the front end down.

I'm a young gun around here, but the more mistakes I make working on my VW, the more I use the search function and find that the "old sages" around here sometimes have a point:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199576&highlight=remove+leaves+torsion+lower

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=210784&highlight=remove+leaves+torsion+lower

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=306059&highlight=remove+leaves+torsion+lower

This one's even in the Type II forum:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=326528&highlight=remove+leaves+torsion+lower

Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:13 am

Since you're lowering it, can you remove the word "saving" from the title of this thread? :wink:

Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:52 am

Thank you Ben for the links! I will sit down and read them with some coffee before we move further on this. The front end has to be taken apart again in order to do the kingpins and I can certainly put the leaves back and try something else (or not).

I DO NOT WANT A LOWERED BUS. That is why I am running the RGB's and stock wheels. I can't get her lower than a few inches and still be able to turn up front without rubbing, which is fine with me.

My only goal is *safety*. Maybe I'm mistaken on the culprit, but the rear end camber was so high and tucked up that she would get squirley if I needed to brake and even turn slightly. Also, with the constant CA road construction, there are ruts in the pavement as they repave lanes and they about flip her too (and I don't go over 55mph). I commute on a mountain highway to work 23 miles each way and it's deer rut season. They dart out like freaking snipers and kill people. I need to know that I can brake and steer safely without killing the bus in I without even hitting a deer. :shock:

I will certainly read the links you posted, I need to learn more. But I was only attempting to drop the front enough to match the back now that it's straight. As a matter of fact, the front is still high and the back is too low since we had to turn the inner spline and couldn't turn the outer one on the right side.

I want a bus that sits pretty (meaning: not low) and straight and is safe to drive. :)

Thanks for the input!

Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:33 pm

all you need then is dropped spindles at the front, and put the leaves back in the beam :-)

don't change the back until you have mounted the dropped spindles, it will probably sit nice then!