TheSamba.com :: View topic - Help with... BRMs/Tire Size/Cal-look/NO China!!

Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:26 pm

Hello all… I recently acquired a nice ’66 sedan. It came with chromies all around shod with 195/50/15F & 205/50/15R – simply not the look or stance I’m going for at all. I want an original Cal-look stance, so was planning on BRM replicas (surprise) from Flat-4 Japan (surprise) in 5 & 5.5 widths (not looking at anything wider or narrower). So I plan on using 185/65/15F & 205/70/15R tire sizes to achieve the look.

Couple questions:
1. Will this wheel/tire combo get me that classic Cal-look stance (i.e. higher in the rear than the front with some decent rubber between the wheels & the road)? What would you recommend?

2. Aside from Flat-4, are there other BRM replica wheels NOT made in China/Taiwan??

Thanks in advance! :)

Rick

Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:01 pm

Rick, with the 185's on the front you may find that you will rub the front fenders, with a stock height bug you should be fine, but if you have dropped spindles or adjusters then you may encounter interference. Is your beam stock width?

Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:53 pm

66brm wrote: Rick, with the 185's on the front you may find that you will rub the front fenders, with a stock height bug you should be fine, but if you have dropped spindles or adjusters then you may encounter interference. Is your beam stock width?

145's in front if you're running dropped spindles by themselves or adjustable beam bey itself........135's in the front if you're running dropped spindles and adjustable beam, which is what I'll be running.......that's what the old school cal look cars were running and will get you the cal look stance

Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:39 am

135s are an old solution to a problem that is now better solved. you can run 175/65/15, 175/60/15, 165/60/15 as great alternatives depending on how low you plan to go. if it's just dropped spindles 175/65/15 or 175/60/15. these tires have a similar sidewally height but a better footprint. why take away form your contact patch if you don't have to...ken....

Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:01 am

Thank you all for the outstanding info. Based on my setup (mild lowering), I may opt for the 175/65/15 recommendation. Since no one mentioned widths, I’m assuming the 5” & 5.5” wide BRMs (+5 offset) will work well. Also, sounds as if the rear 205/70/15 on 5.5” BRMs will satisfy the stance I’m going for… Thanks again all… VERY much appreciated. :D

If anyone else wants to chime in on the "Non-Chinese BRM Rep Options", please do so...

Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:01 am

Nope. They are all made in China. Or worse

I personally found the new Empi BRM's to be excellent quality. very straight and true

If you want American made, I think you will need to buy Randars, as far as I know they are the only ones made in the US. JGE is is english, but don't know where they are actually made

Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:06 pm

If you're shopping for 175/65R15, that was the OEM base model Mini size, which was a run-flat tire ... make sure you don't end up getting run-flats by mistake!

cheers
Ed N.

Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:44 pm

Erik G wrote: Nope. They are all made in China. Or worse

I personally found the new Empi BRM's to be excellent quality. very straight and true

If you want American made, I think you will need to buy Randars, as far as I know they are the only ones made in the US. JGE is is english, but don't know where they are actually made

i've heard many times from those who probably know that the new empi stuff comes outta the same factory as the flat4 stuff. i can tell you i was overly impressed with the empi 4 lug sprints i got and i've had half a dozen sets of flat4 wheels. one of the sprints took a tad more weight to balance than normal for flat4 specs but it still wasn't bad and was about half the price of the flat4 version...

oh and just preference but i like 205/65/15 for the back. 70s just get a little to much bulge for my liking...ken....

Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:02 pm

If you're intent on building a period correct Cal Looker then 135's or 145's are the way to go, but remember that those sizes were used originally because there was nothing else, and those sizes don't handle or brake well at all. With the selection of sizes we have available to us now there is really no reason to put up with such dangerous, poor handling tires. I apologize if I sound opinionated, but I've done it (145's and 135's) and anyone who suggests those sizes should be qualifying their recommendation with "they handle like shit and stopping (especially with front discs) can be dangerous". Even if you end up putting a slightly narrower beam in to make it all work, take the time and do it right. Any of the wider sizes Luckystiff suggested will make the car safer and be WAAY more fun to drive! :twisted:

The sizes you're looking at (along with dropping the front end) will give you the stance you're looking for. 205/70's do fill the rear fenders very nicely, but they are very tall (over 26 1/4") and will kill acceleration, if that's at all important. You'll need a lot of hp to turn a set of those. A 205/65 is about 25 1/2" tall (very close to an oe 165/15) and might be a better choice, especially if you have a smaller motor. If acceleration is important, consider a 195/65 (25") or if the width of 205's are a must, 205/60 (24.7"; these will need a 6" rim).

When I first put 145's(about 24") on my car it was dropped about 3" or so and looked right. I found that when I switched to 135's (23.2"- I was young :roll: :lol: ) the front end needed to come down a little more. At that point the headlight centers were about 19 1/2" above the ground; stock is 24". Type 3 rear drums really improved braking a lot.

As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al

Ps- don't forget to post back after it's done (don't forget the pics).

Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:23 pm

RicFlat4 wrote: Hello all… I recently acquired a nice ’66 sedan. It came with chromies all around shod with 195/50/15F & 205/50/15R – simply not the look or stance I’m going for at all. I want an original Cal-look stance, so was planning on BRM replicas (surprise) from Flat-4 Japan (surprise) in 5 & 5.5 widths (not looking at anything wider or narrower). So I plan on using 185/65/15F & 205/70/15R tire sizes to achieve the look.

Couple questions:
1. Will this wheel/tire combo get me that classic Cal-look stance (i.e. higher in the rear than the front with some decent rubber between the wheels & the road)? What would you recommend?

2. Aside from Flat-4, are there other BRM replica wheels NOT made in China/Taiwan??

Thanks in advance! :)

Rick

The classic cal look.....the DKP look is either 135's or 145's in the front....

135's in the front with either 205/60-15's or 205/65-15's in the rear....perfect!

Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:25 pm

ALB wrote: If you're intent on building a period correct Cal Looker then 135's or 145's are the way to go, but remember that those sizes were used originally because there was nothing else, and those sizes don't handle or brake well at all. With the selection of sizes we have available to us now there is really no reason to put up with such dangerous, poor handling tires. I apologize if I sound opinionated, but I've done it (145's and 135's) and anyone who suggests those sizes should be qualifying their recommendation with "they handle like shit and stopping (especially with front discs) can be dangerous". Even if you end up putting a slightly narrower beam in to make it all work, take the time and do it right. Any of the wider sizes Luckystiff suggested will make the car safer and be WAAY more fun to drive! :twisted:

The sizes you're looking at (along with dropping the front end) will give you the stance you're looking for. 205/70's do fill the rear fenders very nicely, but they are very tall (over 26 1/4") and will kill acceleration, if that's at all important. You'll need a lot of hp to turn a set of those. A 205/65 is about 25 1/2" tall (very close to an oe 165/15) and might be a better choice, especially if you have a smaller motor. If acceleration is at all important, consider a 195/65 (25") or if the width of 205's are a must, 205/60 (24.7"; these will need a 6" rim).

When I first put 145's(about 24") on my car it was dropped about 3" or so and looked right. I found that when I switched to 135's (23.2"- I was young :roll: :lol: ) the front end needed to come down a little more. At that point the headlight centers were about 19 1/2" above the ground; stock is 24". Type 3 rear drums really improved braking a lot.

As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al

Ps- don't forget to post back after it's done (don't forget the pics).

I ran 135's on a 5 and a half inch wheel on my old '67 with a screaming 1835....never had a problem with braking ....and handling? It handled awesome....could take corners very fast.....I keep reading on the samba from quite a few folks who say that the 135's hurt handling and braking and I don't quite understand it....most of the DKP guys run them...and that's on 12 second cars!

Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:57 am

12 second car that only goes straight!

Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:58 pm

My '64 with 205-70 Tiger Paws and 135s. Owned the car for 29 years and have always run 135s. Daily driver for years, now a fun car that does 12's. I won't get in a pissing match about what "Cal-Look" is. I already know what it is.........................................

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:52 pm

garyj wrote: My '64 with 205-70 Tiger Paws and 135s. Owned the car for 29 years and have always run 135s. Daily driver for years, now a fun car that does 12's. I won't get in a pissing match about what "Cal-Look" is. I already know what it is.........................................

Now that is a sweet ride right there....and right on with the 135's.....I'm a believer in them....and 206/65-15's in the back

Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:18 pm

Hey all...

Gary - That's a sweet OG Cal-looker... Man, that's an awesome ride.

Re: 135 & 145s... & the New EMPIs (2011)

I just saw the New Empi gloss & matte black BRMs at Bugformance in Sacramento (great local shop!) today. I must say... they are, aesthetically, a high quality wheel. The machining, fit & finish are very, very nice. No where on the wheel does it indicate country of origin (where manufactured) - usually, if from China or Taiwan, a sticker affixed & blatantly ruins the perception of a quality wheel. These wheels are offered in only 15X5 ET 14 (5X205). I really liked them.

Can anyone share a side-by-side comparison of the EMPI BRMs to the ones from Flat-4?

Also, in the store is a clean '67 shod sporting BRM replicas (of unverifiable origin) shod with 145R F & 205/70/15 R. Well, folks... this did it for me. I don't think there's any other way to go! :)

So now I'm looking at: (my OCD self likes matching things)
Coker Firestone F560 145-15 & Firestone FR710 205/70R/15

This stuff is so much cheaper (& dare I say more fun!) than the forged Marchesinis on my Ducatis...

Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:08 pm

RicFlat4 wrote: Hey all...

Gary - That's a sweet OG Cal-looker... Man, that's an awesome ride.

Re: 135 & 145s... & the New EMPIs (2011)

I just saw the New Empi gloss & matte black BRMs at Bugformance in Sacramento (great local shop!) today. I must say... they are, aesthetically, a high quality wheel. The machining, fit & finish are very, very nice. No where on the wheel does it indicate country of origin (where manufactured) - usually, if from China or Taiwan, a sticker affixed & blatantly ruins the perception of a quality wheel. These wheels are offered in only 15X5 ET 14 (5X205). I really liked them.

Can anyone share a side-by-side comparison of the EMPI BRMs to the ones from Flat-4?

Also, in the store is a clean '67 shod sporting BRM replicas (of unverifiable origin) shod with 145R F & 205/70/15 R. Well, folks... this did it for me. I don't think there's any other way to go! :)

So now I'm looking at: (my OCD self likes matching things)
Coker Firestone F560 145-15 & Firestone FR710 205/70R/15

This stuff is so much cheaper (& dare I say more fun!) than the forged Marchesinis on my Ducatis...

I'm a bit OCD myself......Nankang 135's with Nankang 205/65-15's on 4 lug BRM's ......

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:34 pm

RicFlat4 wrote: Hey all...

Gary - That's a sweet OG Cal-looker... Man, that's an awesome ride.

Re: 135 & 145s... & the New EMPIs (2011)

I just saw the New Empi gloss & matte black BRMs at Bugformance in Sacramento (great local shop!) today. I must say... they are, aesthetically, a high quality wheel. The machining, fit & finish are very, very nice. No where on the wheel does it indicate country of origin (where manufactured) - usually, if from China or Taiwan, a sticker affixed & blatantly ruins the perception of a quality wheel. These wheels are offered in only 15X5 ET 14 (5X205). I really liked them.

Can anyone share a side-by-side comparison of the EMPI BRMs to the ones from Flat-4?

Also, in the store is a clean '67 shod sporting BRM replicas (of unverifiable origin) shod with 145R F & 205/70/15 R. Well, folks... this did it for me. I don't think there's any other way to go! :)
So now I'm looking at: (my OCD self likes matching things)
Coker Firestone F560 145-15 & Firestone FR710 205/70R/15

This stuff is so much cheaper (& dare I say more fun!) than the forged Marchesinis on my Ducatis...

Nothing else looks quite like it......wider is not always better...the skinnier tire in front actually has more traction in the rain due to having less area to "ski".......ask anyone who's lived in an area of the country where it snows and drives a sports car with wide tires......they all have winter season spare wheels and tires that are skinnier for better traction....my old '67 had 135's in the front and it cornered like crazy....not sure why anyone would want to handle better......I guess taking a 90 degree turn at 40 isn't fast enough for them

Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:49 pm

fivelugshortaxle wrote: ALB wrote: If you're intent on building a period correct Cal Looker then 135's or 145's are the way to go, but remember that those sizes were used originally because there was nothing else, and those sizes don't handle or brake well at all. With the selection of sizes we have available to us now there is really no reason to put up with such dangerous, poor handling tires. I apologize if I sound opinionated, but I've done it (145's and 135's) and anyone who suggests those sizes should be qualifying their recommendation with "they handle like shit and stopping (especially with front discs) can be dangerous". Even if you end up putting a slightly narrower beam in to make it all work, take the time and do it right. Any of the wider sizes Luckystiff suggested will make the car safer and be WAAY more fun to drive! :twisted:

The sizes you're looking at (along with dropping the front end) will give you the stance you're looking for. 205/70's do fill the rear fenders very nicely, but they are very tall (over 26 1/4") and will kill acceleration, if that's at all important. You'll need a lot of hp to turn a set of those. A 205/65 is about 25 1/2" tall (very close to an oe 165/15) and might be a better choice, especially if you have a smaller motor. If acceleration is at all important, consider a 195/65 (25") or if the width of 205's are a must, 205/60 (24.7"; these will need a 6" rim).

When I first put 145's(about 24") on my car it was dropped about 3" or so and looked right. I found that when I switched to 135's (23.2"- I was young :roll: :lol: ) the front end needed to come down a little more. At that point the headlight centers were about 19 1/2" above the ground; stock is 24". Type 3 rear drums really improved braking a lot.

As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al

Ps- don't forget to post back after it's done (don't forget the pics).

I ran 135's on a 5 and a half inch wheel on my old '67 with a screaming 1835....never had a problem with braking ....and handling? It handled awesome....could take corners very fast.....I keep reading on the samba from quite a few folks who say that the 135's hurt handling and braking and I don't quite understand it....most of the DKP guys run them...and that's on 12 second cars!

What I said above came from experience; for about 7 years either 145's or 135's on 4 1/2" Sprintstars, Ghia discs, 185/70's on 6" Sprintstars with type 3 rear brakes. Car ran 14.6's at it's peak so it was reasonably fast. Did some parking lot slaloming (autocrossing) and found it handled/braked better with 155's back on the front, but then it took away from the "look". Scared myself a couple of times (on the street as well as the track) when the 135's limitations became apparent. With the discs it was easy to lock up the front end depending on conditions; over the years I learned how far to push it. And yes, I know most of the DKP (and a lot of other guys) run them, but it's a tribute to an era.

The Cal Look scene was about performance and innovation. I know they're period correct, but there are tires today that do the job much better; and that's what it's all about, getting the most out of our cars.

Again, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al

Fivelug- Try a set; I'd like to hear what you think.

Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:11 am

ALB wrote: fivelugshortaxle wrote: ALB wrote: If you're intent on building a period correct Cal Looker then 135's or 145's are the way to go, but remember that those sizes were used originally because there was nothing else, and those sizes don't handle or brake well at all. With the selection of sizes we have available to us now there is really no reason to put up with such dangerous, poor handling tires. I apologize if I sound opinionated, but I've done it (145's and 135's) and anyone who suggests those sizes should be qualifying their recommendation with "they handle like shit and stopping (especially with front discs) can be dangerous". Even if you end up putting a slightly narrower beam in to make it all work, take the time and do it right. Any of the wider sizes Luckystiff suggested will make the car safer and be WAAY more fun to drive! :twisted:

The sizes you're looking at (along with dropping the front end) will give you the stance you're looking for. 205/70's do fill the rear fenders very nicely, but they are very tall (over 26 1/4") and will kill acceleration, if that's at all important. You'll need a lot of hp to turn a set of those. A 205/65 is about 25 1/2" tall (very close to an oe 165/15) and might be a better choice, especially if you have a smaller motor. If acceleration is at all important, consider a 195/65 (25") or if the width of 205's are a must, 205/60 (24.7"; these will need a 6" rim).

When I first put 145's(about 24") on my car it was dropped about 3" or so and looked right. I found that when I switched to 135's (23.2"- I was young :roll: :lol: ) the front end needed to come down a little more. At that point the headlight centers were about 19 1/2" above the ground; stock is 24". Type 3 rear drums really improved braking a lot.

As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al

Ps- don't forget to post back after it's done (don't forget the pics).

I ran 135's on a 5 and a half inch wheel on my old '67 with a screaming 1835....never had a problem with braking ....and handling? It handled awesome....could take corners very fast.....I keep reading on the samba from quite a few folks who say that the 135's hurt handling and braking and I don't quite understand it....most of the DKP guys run them...and that's on 12 second cars!

What I said above came from experience; for about 7 years either 145's or 135's on 4 1/2" Sprintstars, Ghia discs, 185/70's on 6" Sprintstars with type 3 rear brakes. Car ran 14.6's at it's peak so it was reasonably fast. Did some parking lot slaloming (autocrossing) and found it handled/braked better with 155's back on the front, but then it took away from the "look". Scared myself a couple of times (on the street as well as the track) when their limitations became apparent. With the discs it was easy to lock up the front end depending on conditions; over the years I learned how far to push it. And yes, I know most of the DKP (and a lot of other guys) run them, but it's a tribute to an era.

The Cal Look scene was about performance and innovation. I know they're period correct, but there are tires today that do the job much better; and that's what it's all about, getting the most out of our cars.

Again, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al

Fivelug- Try a set; I'd like to hear what you think.

I'm torn between 135's in the front with 205/65-15's in the rear and what Glenn's running on his fat girl...195/55's front and 205/60's in the rear...

I've got an adjustable beam narrowed 2 inches with 2 1/2 dropped spindles. The spindles add a half inch to each side so I'm a half inch narrower overall on each side......I want the tires tucked under the lip a bit so I'll probably be going 135's front....Going to use the 4 lug BRM's....used to not like them , but I've actually grown to like them a ton!..4 1/2 wide in front and 5 1/2 inch wide in the rear....Perfect match for the tires I want to use

Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:13 am

And as of right now I won't be running disc brakes.......drums for me......as long as they're maintained and adjusted when they should be, they're more than enough.....besides, real men run drums.... :twisted: :lol: