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Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:24 pm

I've got a nice hydraulic 2110 setup in my 1967 camper (reduction boxes) with dual 40mm Dellortos. I'm debating on going EFI or not. I want reliability and repair ability. This is a daily driver and expedition type vhehicle, so replacement parts must be common and the system robust. I realize Dellortos are counter to this desire....

Which is the best way to go?

I like the idea of the megasquirt...plus theres an Iphone app for it. However, I like the seemingly plug and play of the latest CB Quick Tune system.
I'd like to get a whole package...not REALLY piece things together unless theres a braindead list of parts and places to find them....

Which way to go?

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:07 pm

IMO.....if you want repairability, stick with a carb. At the same time, how much really goes wrong with EFI? If I were going to pick one over the other, it would be Megasquirt over the CB. The CB set up doesn't have near the tuneability that the megasquirt has, nor does it have a plethora of people all over the country or even the world using it. If you did go carb, I'd be half tempted to suggest a single 44IDF. I know they're used plenty in th eoff road scene, and are very capable when the roads are tossing you to and fro.

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:09 pm

sounds like the CB kit might be better for you, even though I think MS is superior, it comes with everything you need, the reason alot of guys choose the megasquirt system is because its cheaper and you can build it to suit your needs.

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:09 pm

I've not got any experience with this CB quick tune that you speak of, but I am a HUGE fan of MegaSquirt.

MS certainly isn't for amateurs, but the features that are built in are great, plus you can run the spark system off of MS as well and have the whole engine management system contained in one unit and easy to go.

I've got a friend who's running MSnSv2 with an EDIS coil-on-plug system and not only is it pretty dead reliable but it's also really easy to tune and everything. Doing highway passes while sitting in the passenger seat and adjusting the fuel map based off of real-time datalogging is absolutely the way to go.

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:18 pm

With the MS system can you just set an A/F goal and go? I'm not going for peak performance at 7000rpm, I drive very conservatively and have no desire for racing. Again, reliability, repairs, and efficiency are key to me.

Regarding price...CB lists it at 1700usd or so...can a MS system be built for less?

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:19 pm

Sniperx wrote: Regarding price...CB lists it at 1700usd or so...can a MS system be built for less?

Prob closer to $1000 8)

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:27 pm

Sniperx wrote: With the MS system can you just set an A/F goal and go? I'm not going for peak performance at 7000rpm, I drive very conservatively and have no desire for racing. Again, reliability, repairs, and efficiency are key to me.

Regarding price...CB lists it at 1700usd or so...can a MS system be built for less?

With MS you can import a default map for whatever motor you're running (or one near it), and either tune it specifically by each cell or just adjust your fuel trim. This really depends on if somebody else has already put MS on their engine and has a map readily available for you to use and import.

I'm not 100% but there may be a way to set up MS where it constantly adjusts the cells based on O2 sensor input to try and keep your AFRs stoich.

I've only ever heard of the old fashioned way of tuning it based on running the engine under various conditions (speed, load, etc) and adjusting the fuel amounts based on if your AFRs are too lean/rich or whatever. Obviously you want rich under heavy load/accel, and leaner while cruising.

Also, an MS system could be built for less, but remember that you are going to have to spend a fair amount of time tuning it. There's a LOT of variables in a fuel injection system -- sensor inputs (Throttle, MAP, O2, etc), fuel pressure, injector pulsewidth & flow rate, etc etc...

If you're just building a car for efficiency and reliability, stick with carbs or a bolt-on EFI system. For the amount of work you'd need to put in and tune an MS system, you're going to be disappointed unless performance is your goal.

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:50 pm

Get Megasquirt, tune it with Tunerstudio/VE analyzer live (programs itself while you drive!): http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:53 pm

miniman82 wrote: Get Megasquirt, tune it with Tunerstudio/VE analyzer live (programs itself while you drive!): http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/

And here's the guy to prove me wrong :P

I've only ever tuned MS manually, though if this tunes itself as you're going along, that's pretty neat. TunerStudio is a good program too. I've seen a few cars running emulators and being programmed via TS.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:26 am

CB's new EFI System with there New ECU came out a few weeks back, they have built in more versatility into there system, I say give them a call... I liked what I heard on there old system, just more or less plug and play, just a tune by knob set up, there new system has more mapping available.. RB

Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:41 am

I've been megasquirted on my car for almost five years now.

The only failures I've had in all that time is when I've modded the MS board and did something wrong and fried a spot on my relay board (not the actual MS). Took me 5 minutes to fix with a soldering iron.

As far as any failures while I was driving it around, there has been zero.

Software is all MS, hardware is whatever you choose. I've experienced no failures with my software, all my hardware is off the shelf factory parts (mostly Ford) so any auto parts store across the country has what I need to repair.

I've had better reliability with my MS efi than I ever did with carbs. No more plugged jets running me lean on one bank and cooking down half my engine. No more points/condenser, no more plug wires, etc, etc. That part has been real nice. I know people want to say carbs are more reliable/dependable, but I ask "Are they?". I don't think so. Once you set your MS tune, you're done and probably won't touch it again for god knows how long. Unless you end up like most of us MS'ers and keep changing things so you can keep tuning and playing with it. For guys like me and Mini, it's just too much fun to leave it alone, lol.

And yes, MS has EGO correction. You can program it to whatever limits you want. Mine is set to allow up to 15% change in fuel to maintain target a/f ratio, up to 90% throttle. I do not use EGO under WOT conditions, most nobody does. But you set your fuel table first, and with AnalyzeLive, you can tune your whole map to a gnats ass in about a half hour of driving or less.

Building and setting up the computer takes the longest time and the most patience. You can buy the MS already built and setup for the features you want at www.diyautotune.com to make it easier on yourself.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:04 am

EFI and Megasquirt has a lot more popular, and more active forum then here, for some reason most Samba people are stuck in the carb world.... OR maybe its just not caught on enough for the "handlers" of the forum to create its own place here....

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=23&sid=a95c9292821ca333090acb063cf327d5

Dale

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:58 am

I just converted my mexi system to CB's new ecu. Still using the mexican hardware( manifold throttle body ect) and could not be happier, no distributor, complete tune abillity ect, (on the thing) My ghia has m/s and will probably get changed as well, CB's new system is very easy to use. And now I can add boost to my thing and be able to tune it!

Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:33 am

So I'm looking at this more and more and the only somewhat ready to go setup is Mario V.'s in the classifieds...even still his base price doesn't include EVERYTHING to drive away.

My main concern is the wiring harness. I can collect Bosch injectors and whatnot from all kinds of places.

Is there a list of things you need? I've been by shoptalk, but its fairly hardcore and I'm a little stuck on where to begin.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:35 am

mcmscott wrote: I just converted my mexi system to CB's new ecu. Still using the mexican hardware( manifold throttle body ect) and could not be happier, no distributor, complete tune abillity ect, (on the thing) My ghia has m/s and will probably get changed as well, CB's new system is very easy to use. And now I can add boost to my thing and be able to tune it!

s this what you're talking about when you say "new"?

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1665

Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:44 am

That's thier old ecu, I used the new ecu, crank pickup, ignition, wideband o2 and made my own harness. The thing started instantly, then we drove it and had it tuned with in 20 minuets. You can pick a target air fuel ratio and it will hold it, you can shut off the injectors on de-cell and choose what rpm and throttle position the come back on. There is a buttload you can do with this system

Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:15 am

They both have thier places.

CB's is great for those that want an EFI system to bolt on and not really have to 'learn' EFI. Compared to MS, it's features are minimal, but people that are just looking to upgrade from carbs (and distributor) and nothing more. It is not IMHO total engine management. And depending on the individual, is all they need/want. I played with it on a locals bug, and it wouldn't work for what I need. But would be ample for what others might be looking for for sure.

MS is great for those that want total control, and the ability to really learn EFI and really get into the technical aspect of it. Those that are happier to say "I built this" rather than "I bought this". If you step up to MS3X, then you really step up to (IMHO) total engine management at that point. More features and functions than you can shake a stick at. And you're in total control of all those features to the sillyest level of detail. Operate cooling fans at certain temps, indicator lights for whatever you want (temp, rpms, etc, etc). Engine cut-off if it goes too far lean from what your target A/F ratio is at that point in the table, allow EGO as much or as little control as you decide, the list goes on, and on, and on. But it's more work than just bolting it on, and going. It's just what I need. But far more than what others do.

How good is MS3X (cream of the MS crop)? In a debate with a die-hard Motec guy, I listed what MS3X was capable of and its processor speed, and asked for a Motec equivalent that would be competitive with it. He gave me a part number for a unit that with wiring harness would cost $8,000. That was the level he had to go to to compete with my MegaSquirt system. To say the least, I was pleased to hear that. I paid less than 10 times that price for my MS3X, lol.

To anyone going to EFI, look at what you are looking to get out of it. If you want to be involved as little as possible and just enjoy the drive, get CB's system. But if building and tuning a system is as much fun as driving it, you just gotta go MS. Different strokes for different folks.

And if you're the type that does like working on things, but is intimidated by it, just go for it. My only previous EFI experience before I went MS was playing with the stock L-Jet on my 79 Westy. It doesn't get much more basic than that. I had a huge learning curve to do it, but I got over it and now have zero regrets making the change. A few years back I sold all my performance carbs. I have no plans on ever going back to carburetion on any kind of performance motor. I still have a soft spot for a stock solex on a stock engine though. Just something fun about that for me.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:03 pm

Can you change out the CB computer for a MS one later on?

I'm leaning towards CB...while the other system is more powerful and tunable...I think its too much for my needs.

Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:25 pm

I don't know what m/s can do that CB's can't

Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:03 pm

No arguing please.....I'm just collecting info to make a more educated decision.