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Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:33 pm

Hi All, I have been doing quite alot of research on this site, as my son has decided that the type 3 VW Fastback is the car he 'digs'! I have some experience on my 69 bug from high school, but was very unfamilar with the type 3's. This site/forum is AMAZING :shock: Thank you for all who have made it so helpful. I purchased a car from So Cal late last month and brought her home to the East SF Bay Area. We are diving in and discovering all the issues: No Heater, misc electrical issues, no rubber or weather stripping anywhere!, some body damage, even 'cal-look front door windows, & some engine tuning.

One big question: how do I determine the wiring harness that I may have? It looks like it could be a late 67 or 68 harness, even though the car is a 69 model. Mfg date looks to be Dec 68 (s/n# 319157...) I am having a very hard time finding the wire colors that I have on the diagrams, unless I go back to 67!? does that make any sense?

Thanks in advance,
David

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:59 pm

The day my dad & I picked it up in So Cal...one long day of driving :lol:

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:28 am

so witht the wiring diagrams here you cant find correlation to a 69 diagram
only 67?
68-70

look at your turn signal switch and relay and headlight switch..
the best is looking at the fuse box
take it down a bit and trace dash wires and such

i hope you looked at the engine bay before you bought it
did the rear damage do anything else?
fenders are replaceable.

No heat?
are you just missing parts?

Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:50 am

Looks like a good car to refurbish. Cobalt blue exterior color? Is the engine still fuel injected or has it been converted to carburetors?

Once you get it running well and take it for a test drive, you'll probably be surprised how different the car feels compared to your Beetle memories. I have a '70 Fasty and it feels so much more "solid" and less confining/more elbow room than my Beetle. But my Fasty is not running at the moment...

Sharkskin- where's the circuit for the rear window defroster, which was standard equipment on '69? Oh wait- just remembered- that might be shown in a separate page as a stand-alone diagram in the Bentley manual...

Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:48 am

and you have rare interceptor wheels on it
i had a set and only know of maybe 2 other pairs

Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:12 pm

Thank you for electrical diagrams. I have printed that one as well as the other years that preceed our car. They are kind of hard to read with out the "key", so I have been using the wire colors/combination to figure out what is what. My main concern has been to get the lights working. I found an 'in-line' fuse under the rear seat that had rolled up aluminum foil it it! and when I replaced it with a "red" fuse most lights began to work. But I have not been able to find this fuse on any diagram or even the relays...probably just need to study them more. I do know that my fuse block is a real 'rats nest' of hodge podge wires so that will be fun to clean up...does anyone make a replacement wiring harness? the other issue tail light wise is that the back up light is not there...or at least on the lens. I guess this is a Euro look? not sure what to do for back up lights.

The rear fender damage is not too bad, the air duct work underneath will need some love when we get to it, but I think it will have to wait for now.

The car runs well and drives pretty nice, much better than my bug--you are right on here. Still dont have many miles on it...just got brake lights working yesterday. The motor was replaced with a used a dp 1600 with dual solex carbs. i need to get the idle adjusted casue it seems really high, but other wise it has plenty of power and the tranny shifts nicely.

I have been collecting heater parts so that we can fit that system back on, the parts classified has been great so far.

It was not aware of "interceptor" wheels, but if thats what we have, they look cool and the drivers side is in pretty good shape. the passengers side has a lot of damage due to brake dust, maybe with some scrubbing we can get them back without having to re-chrome them.

Lots to learn, but having fun doing it! :wink:

David

Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:41 pm

Squareback and Fastback fenders are the same if you are looking for replacements. Use super fine (0000) steel wool to clean your chrome wheels. You can find used backup lights in the classifieds to bolt to your bumper.

Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:03 pm

Yep; the backup lights for your '69 were separate from the "big" lenses which started on the '70. The backup lights are the exact same units as those for a '67 thru '69 Ghia, and for a '67 Beetle. The ones for the Beetle mount to a curved metal bent flat bar, but the lights themselves are identical to Ghia and Type3. You should see two mounting holes on the top surface of your rear bumper (one per side), just inward of the holes on the rear face which were used for the upright overriders.

If you look under your car you might get lucky and find the wires tucked away (or snipped off by POs); there is one wire going to each lamp. The ground path is provided by the mounting the lamp to the bumper. They are actuated by a switch at the front of the transmission (nose cone)- shown as F4 in the wiring diagram. As you can see by the diagram, + power to that switch comes from a wire coming off the + terminal on the ignition coil, with an inline fuse still in the engine compartment. This means that the coil is always providing + to one side of the switch. The switch is like a doorbell button, only being actuated when you shift into reverse with the ignition on. That completes the circuit, allowing power to the two lamps.

In what condition is the interior?

Have you seen this very helpful brochure on how to adjust the Solex carbs and linkage? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/t3dualcarbtuning/index.php

Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:12 pm

Additional

take the wiring diagram and laminate it

Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:10 pm

I had wondered what those holes in the bumpers went to, now I know & will keep an eye out in the classifieds. Thanks!

good tip on the 1000 grit steel wool, I think I have some of that laying around & had actually forgotten about it.

The interior is pretty rough...it has the low back front seats with almost thread bare velour/cloth material in a yucky brown and no door panels or arm rests. But the headliner and rear door panels are in good shape, just in yucky brown. The back seat is correct and maybe a little soft. It seems to slide out when sat on for any period of time so I got figure out why it is not staying put. The biggest issue on the inside is the "cal look" front windows--with almost no seals, and the total lack of weather stripping around the doors...so it leaks pretty good when washed or raining. Just more things to add to my list. :roll:

Now I get to go see what else I can fix or screw up :D

David

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:29 pm

"yucky brown" headliner?? Must look quite depressing inside. Before you consider replacing the headliner, try this- buy a can or two of white vinyl spray. The "SEM" brand (good auto parts store) is excellent but can give you a "glue high" in a confined space.

With the car outside in the sun so it's warm inside, mask off and cover EVERYTHING that should not get white overspray, like the window rubber, dash top, rear seat shelf, etc. Spray a few light coats onto the headliner. If it does not come out well, you can always replace the headliner, though that's quite a job and would need the windows to come out so you can tuck the headliner vinyl beneath it. I touched up some yellowed (smoker) sections of my '77 Beetle's headliner this way, and it worked very well.

On my '70 Fastback, the rear seat cushion is held in place by two metal prongs that stick up from the seat front edge crossmember on the body. The front edge of the seat frame has two holes which fit over those prongs. The prongs are about 2-3" high. If those are also used on a '69 and have been sawed off by a PO, then the seat cushion might easily slide forward.

Nice thing with your semi-ratty/gutted interior is that you are free to choose a color for the seats and door panels. Check the sales brochure in the Archives section to see what colors were offered. IMO the white color would go really well with your dark blue exterior color. My mother had a cobalt blue '69 Squareback with the white interior when new and I remember it was very appealing.

'69 Fastback seats had integrated headrests. I don't know if they were slimmed down for '70 just like they were on Beetles from '69 to '70, which makes them much less "clumsy" looking. Other Type3 experts here can clarify. So if you want to get some used front seats to reupholster, see if you like that style, then try to find some. I'm pretty sure the front seats from a Squareback will also fit a Fastback of the same year. Don't know if a '70 seat will fit your '69 tracks...

Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:19 pm

The vinyl paint sounds like a good option. My 69 bug was Green outside with white inside and had always thought it was sharp. When we re-do this one white will be the path I choose. I also like the 'salt and pepper' carpet, which we have, but is in lousy shape.

Here's another question that I have been unable to figure out: on the side of the seat base for the driver, there is a button that when the key is one starts the car! Does this make it a "push button" car? If not what is one then? Also, the top part of the ignition switch comes out in a short cylinder with the key going thru it?! :shock: I assume that means it is broken or at least missing some sort of clip?!

Did not get much time to work on the car...had to work stuff to do :(

Thanks,
David

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:21 pm

great thread, i will need some of these diagrams so i can get my rear window defogger to work again

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:31 pm

Mike--Thank you for the recommendation on the 1000g steel wheel. the results so far... Before...
[img

And after...

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Thanks for pointing us in the right direction!

David

Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:11 pm

I noticed on my '68 fastback that not all the wires match the wiring diagram as far as color, and which end of the wire had multiple connections. It didn't change what was connected to what (so far as I've found), but it makes reading the diagram a bit more 'interesting'.

There's quite a few differences in wiring between a '67 and '68-'70: Fuel injection, the blinkers, the open-door buzzer, and the back-up light (that I saw). Also, according to BobNotch in a different thread, the brown wires for the front blinkers don't exist for the '68-'69 cars, but they are on the diagram for '68-'70. I haven't had a chance to verify that yet on mine.

VeeDub Fasty wrote: Here's another question that I have been unable to figure out: on the side of the seat base for the driver, there is a button that when the key is one starts the car! Does this make it a "push button" car? If not what is one then? Also, the top part of the ignition switch comes out in a short cylinder with the key going thru it?! :shock: I assume that means it is broken or at least missing some sort of clip?!

That sounds like a hack to me (or theft-deterrent device).
A 'push button' car is the earlier ones that had buttons for some of the controls on the dash panel (somebody with more experience can chime in here). All I know for sure is, the '68-'69 is not a push button model.

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:22 pm

VeeDub Fasty wrote: Here's another question that I have been unable to figure out: on the side of the seat base for the driver, there is a button that when the key is one starts the car! Does this make it a "push button" car? If not what is one then?

nerfer wrote: A 'push button' car is the earlier ones that had buttons for some of the controls on the dash panel (somebody with more experience can chime in here). All I know for sure is, the '68-'69 is not a push button model.

It's an up to mid 64 t-3/t-34 only deal. Here's a couple of pics.

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:17 pm

Dave writes "Also, the top part of the ignition switch comes out in a short cylinder with the key going thru it?! I assume that means it is broken or at least missing some sort of clip?! " For the Type 3 specialists- does this sound like the ignition switch ~ '67 which was positioned on top of the steering column near the instrument panel, and was positioned cross-wise? The one which if broken, is nearly impossible to fix due to lack of repair parts?

Dave- good going with the wheels so far. You probably know that for the heavier rust, you can use a BRASS bristle brush (like a toothbrush) to clean off some of the heavier scale. And get into the corners on the front of the rim around your wheel weight edges.

I had similar rust on the chrome front forks of a mountain bike I was given. I knocked off the rust with the brass brush, then applied a rust converter called "Rust-Mort". This is an acidic liquid made by SEM for the body shop trade. I've used it for over 25 years; finding it in the good auto body supply store here in town. Apply it with a soft bristle brush, but cover your skin (and wear goggles) in case some bits splatter onto your skin. After it's applied and dries, it turns the rust remnants to a black color. Then I sanded the rust crater edges down with 150 or 220 paper, applied another coat of the Rust-Mort; let dry and sprayed the area with a chrome-finish spray paint. From 3' away it looks convincing, and much better than the original rust. You could use this process for the backside of your rims, just on the areas which have the heavier rust. Original shininess is not that important, but controlling the rust still is.

Your large dent in the left rear fender looks to be spread over a large area, but no tears through the metal. I'm a beginner as to bodywork, but before you try anything drastic, try removing the fender, laying it on your lawn and gently banging out the dent using a blunt object such as the head of a baseball bat. You've got nothing to lose, and if it works even partially, lots of confidence to gain. One of our body experts such as Bobnotch could provide his input on this "backyard" suggestion.

Bobnotch- in your first picture above, at first glance I was glad to see a Type 3 hauling a$$ on the highway- then noticed the speedo's high number and realized it's a Euro-market kilometer unit. :?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:56 pm

That thing is on empty too :? he better "slow down" and get some more gas, lol.

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:39 am

Rome wrote: Dave writes "Also, the top part of the ignition switch comes out in a short cylinder with the key going thru it?! I assume that means it is broken or at least missing some sort of clip?! " For the Type 3 specialists- does this sound like the ignition switch ~ '67 which was positioned on top of the steering column near the instrument panel, and was positioned cross-wise? The one which if broken, is nearly impossible to fix due to lack of repair parts?

Your large dent in the left rear fender looks to be spread over a large area, but no tears through the metal. I'm a beginner as to bodywork, but before you try anything drastic, try removing the fender, laying it on your lawn and gently banging out the dent using a blunt object such as the head of a baseball bat. You've got nothing to lose, and if it works even partially, lots of confidence to gain. One of our body experts such as Bobnotch could provide his input on this "backyard" suggestion.

Bobnotch- in your first picture above, at first glance I was glad to see a Type 3 hauling a$$ on the highway- then noticed the speedo's high number and realized it's a Euro-market kilometer unit. :?

Yes, a 67 has that funky expensive to replace switch. ISP is the only one I know that is doing anything for them, but it's not cheap.

As Roland eluded to, that's not a bad suggestion, but rather than a bat, I'd start out with a rubber mallet. If it doesn't work out, you can always pick up an early fender, since you're in California.

And Roland, I stole those pics out of the 1500 club thread. :wink: I was mainly after the switch pics, to give the OP an idea of what they (a push button switch assembly) looked like. 8) I've had my 65 up to that speed before (on an MPH speedo), but that was driving thru the hills of PA, coming back from the '04 T3 Invasion. :twisted:

And Supa, that was Jason's (Notchboy) car. It must have made it to a gas station, since he's sold it.

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:17 pm

VeeDub Fasty wrote:

Here's another question that I have been unable to figure out: on the side of the seat base for the driver, there is a button that when the key is one starts the car! Does this make it a "push button" car? If not what is one then? Also, the top part of the ignition switch comes out in a short cylinder with the key going thru it?! :shock: I assume that means it is broken or at least missing some sort of clip?!

Thanks,
David

Put the both of those thing together and you get a cheap home-brew fix to a broken ignition switch. Sounds like you've been PO'ed.
Fix the ignition cylinder and switch properly, and you can get rid of that button.
On the other hand, I had a 66 Triumph TR4A that had a toggle switch, and a push button instead of an ignition switch (Due to a tightwad PO) and I ran it that way for years. It worked fine, and I kinda liked the "race car" feel it had.