TheSamba.com :: View topic - Seeking out the History and Facts for this 1959 SO 23

Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:27 pm

The Resurrection Project has been approached by one of our long time friends to help him gather all the details of his 1959 SO-23 Westfalia camper in order to obtain the history prior to it's upcoming sale. We have been working to obtain all the details locally, however we have come up on a few questions and would like to open up discussion on this early Westfalia for some help from the samba experts on early Westies.

The history that we have so far on this bus is that it was purchased from the daughter of the original owner by long time VW collector Ron Huff out of Vacaville, CA back in 88/89. It was found in Davis, CA in the driveway of the original owner with a camper shell over the top of it. In speaking with Ron when he found the bus it was still in original paint which was Mango Green and Seagull grey...it had two real small dents in the back corners, no rust anywhere on the bus except up front near the passenger tire in the inner wheel well. The inside was super clean as it is today and had all the original equipment down to the Mauser bowl and the red and white circus tent. (To save questions about the Mauser bowl Ron thinks his mom may still have it in her tupper wear stash..it is currently not with the bus). There were some other small pieces that were sold off here or there and back in 88/89 no one would have thought twice, however there are still many items that are with the bus today including the tent in amazing condition that Ron had dry cleaned when he got the bus and somewhere between Ron and our friend the optional urinal has appeared. The worst thing about the bus when Ron got it was that the original owner had installed a 356 motor at that time and had cut out and removed some of the original sheet metal in the engine compartment. In speaking with Ron he was able to locate replacement metal from another bus out of a junkyard and replace the missing metal at the factory areas. The bus also came to Ron with the Euro deluxe style bumpers both front and rear and he has pictures from when he got the bus with them on it along with some strange optional mirrors what we have been able to locate in a factory catalog.

Ron then sold the bus to " a guy with a collared shirt and a fancy watch" (this is where we would love any help) and this mystery person seemed to have had the bus repainted and "restored" in Palm Green/Sand Green which is still to this day very presentable, but as we know it is not the way the bus came from the factory. Now at sometime shortly after the restoration the bus was either sold or (there is some fuzzy memory points and this is another spot we would like help) the owner of the bus at this time (either fancy watch guy or some old hippie dude) had the bus and pulled what has been hinted to as possibly some sort of scam on the insurance company (everyone is innocent until proven guilty). The bus came up missing, the insurance company was notified, they paid out the owner of the vehicle at that time, and then magically a few weeks later the bus appeared back at the owners house. He called the insurance company to let them know his bus had been found, but since they already paid him out the bus legally was theirs and they sent the tow truck over to collect the bus.

This is where our friend comes into play, his dad owned a very famous local junkyard in Roseville, CA named James Auto Wrecker and there were always Volkswagen buses there in the late 80's and early 90's. Well one day while at the local auctions this bus came across the block, while the old owner "a dirty old hippie dude" was yelling out at the fence that it was his bus..our friend bought the bus at the auction, while leaving he was approached by the now previous owner and informed that he had a bunch of the parts to the bus that could now be bought back for the right price. Our friend agreed and went over and purchased a bunch of items that had been removed from the bus prior to the tow truck coming to pick it up after it reappeared in the previous owners driveway. The bus has now been in storage and has only covered about 400 total miles in it was bought back in the early 90's. It has only been out to a handful of shows and generally has not been seen by the public. The interior of the bus is amazing lots of cool trinkets included the items to make the front seat turn into bunk beds for the kids, the optional ice box, the cabinets, the bed, the lights this bus is very cool time capsule. The owner was also able to secure and original Westy wood slat roof rack many years ago for the bus.

In order to get more information we sent away for the birth certificate and this is where we need some more help. The bus came back with the colors listed as Velvet Green/Pearl White (certificate shown below)...now the original colors were Mango Green and Seagull Grey as photo proof by Ron and if you look good on the bus itself you can find spots of the correct paint colors. Has anyone else ever had the wrong colors come back on their birth certificate from Wolfsburg? I don't remember Velvet Green and Pearl White being available in 1959, has anyone ever seen this or a two tone Kombi of these colors that early? The M code plate is stamped F23 for SO-23, but that M code was not listed on the birth certificate, yet all the other ones are. Is there a reason that Volkswagen would not know this was an original So-23. Did they send the buses out to Westfalia and then Westfalia later stamped the M code plates?

We are only looking for answers at this time, please no upset people about the fact that it is going up for sale. The estimated price will be depending on the rest of the research and estimated market values for other similar vehicles.The current owner has had it for over 25years and is passing it on as he would like to see it get used. :D

Please help us get the full story of the bus so that we can make sure it holds a strong pedigree for many years to come.

Thank You,

Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:58 pm

This isn't the first time I've read about a BC being incorrect. Good luck with your info search.

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:15 pm

ricekooker wrote: This isn't the first time I've read about a BC being incorrect. Good luck with your info search.

strange it seems! :shock:

thank you! :D

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:26 pm

Let's see a photo of the mcode plate.

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:35 pm

Anchovy wrote: Let's see a photo of the mcode plate.
Ok ... One sec,

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:37 pm

TheResurrectionProject wrote:
In order to get more information we sent away for the birth certificate and this is where we need some more help. The bus came back with the colors listed as Velvet Green/Pearl White (certificate shown below)...now the original colors were Mango Green and Seagull Grey as photo proof by Ron and if you look good on the bus itself you can find spots of the correct paint colors. Has anyone else ever had the wrong colors come back on their birth certificate from Wolfsburg? I don't remember Velvet Green and Pearl White being available in 1959, has anyone ever seen this or a two tone Kombi of these colors that early? The M code plate is stamped F23 for SO-23, but that M code was not listed on the birth certificate, yet all the other ones are. Is there a reason that Volkswagen would not know this was an original So-23. Did they send the buses out to Westfalia and then Westfalia later stamped the M code plates?

It's not at all uncommon for VW Birth Certificates to be wrong. You are correct about those colors not being available in '59.

Westfalia had their own paint but they didn't stamp m-code plates that I've ever heard of.

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:42 pm

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:45 pm

crofty wrote: TheResurrectionProject wrote:
In order to get more information we sent away for the birth certificate and this is where we need some more help. The bus came back with the colors listed as Velvet Green/Pearl White (certificate shown below)...now the original colors were Mango Green and Seagull Grey as photo proof by Ron and if you look good on the bus itself you can find spots of the correct paint colors. Has anyone else ever had the wrong colors come back on their birth certificate from Wolfsburg? I don't remember Velvet Green and Pearl White being available in 1959, has anyone ever seen this or a two tone Kombi of these colors that early? The M code plate is stamped F23 for SO-23, but that M code was not listed on the birth certificate, yet all the other ones are. Is there a reason that Volkswagen would not know this was an original So-23. Did they send the buses out to Westfalia and then Westfalia later stamped the M code plates?

It's not at all uncommon for VW Birth Certificates to be wrong. You are correct about those colors not being available in '59.

Westfalia had their own paint but they didn't stamp m-code plates that I've ever heard of.

Ok, so that is something to consider about the paint making a change, but still sticks us without those colors being available...

here is own that may seem as a no brainer, but, could a euro bus not have semi's

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:45 pm

"strong pedigree"? I guess that's one way to describe an incomplete, repainted in the wrong colors so23 with hacked engine bay sheet metal and past involvement in an insurance scam!

I'd estimate top dollar for that bus at 10k.

p.s. birth certificates are useless- they are always wrong

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:55 pm

DanM wrote: "strong pedigree"? I guess that's one way to describe an incomplete, repainted in the wrong colors so23 with hacked engine bay sheet metal and past involvement in an insurance scam!

I'd estimate top dollar for that bus at 10k.

p.s. birth certificates are useless- they are always wrong

Ok thank you... 10k is a start! :D

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:21 pm

What's it show on the b/c below the blue line in the way of interior configuration?

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:47 pm

Hilarious, I sold the owner a sand green palm green wheel to match the paint to. Blast from the past!

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:48 pm

woodslat wrote: Hilarious, I sold the owner a sand green palm green wheel to match the paint to. Blast from the past!

the current owner?

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:55 pm

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm

TheResurrectionProject wrote:

here is own that may seem as a no brainer, but, could a euro bus not have semi's
I would not consider a bus with UF port code and M 175 to be a euro bus.

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:04 pm

Clara wrote: TheResurrectionProject wrote: crofty wrote: TheResurrectionProject wrote:
In order to get more information we sent away for the birth certificate and this is where we need some more help. The bus came back with the colors listed as Velvet Green/Pearl White (certificate shown below)...now the original colors were Mango Green and Seagull Grey as photo proof by Ron and if you look good on the bus itself you can find spots of the correct paint colors. Has anyone else ever had the wrong colors come back on their birth certificate from Wolfsburg? I don't remember Velvet Green and Pearl White being available in 1959, has anyone ever seen this or a two tone Kombi of these colors that early? The M code plate is stamped F23 for SO-23, but that M code was not listed on the birth certificate, yet all the other ones are. Is there a reason that Volkswagen would not know this was an original So-23. Did they send the buses out to Westfalia and then Westfalia later stamped the M code plates?

It's not at all uncommon for VW Birth Certificates to be wrong. You are correct about those colors not being available in '59.

Westfalia had their own paint but they didn't stamp m-code plates that I've ever heard of.

Ok, so that is something to consider about the paint making a change, but still sticks us without those colors being available...

here is own that may seem as a no brainer, but, could a euro bus not have semi's
I would not consider a bus with UF port code to be a euro bus.
Also, the M-code plate says overrider bumpers.
:D

thats the conclusion I had come up with... cool bumpers tho! :D

Any other observations would be greatly appreciated. 8)

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:13 pm

I love the inside of this bus... I dont have a lot of experience with the so23, they are jus plain awsome! :D

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:42 pm

The mcode plate appears to be an original 1959 plate with the notches on each side. The SK 693 code is Mango Green and Seagull Gray so it looks like VW gave you a bad b/c assuming the VIN on the b/c matches the one on the mcode plate. Often times VW will list the interior colors or special notes below the blue line on the b/c but we cannot see it in your photo. Is there anything there from VW?

Also, VW is saying "unknown" for the 544 Mcode, but it is referenced as: "Kundendienstwerkstatt", (i.e. "service room", special place for conversions made by Volkswagen itself). here in the technical section of thesamba.

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:55 pm

TheResurrectionProject wrote: crofty wrote: TheResurrectionProject wrote:
In order to get more information we sent away for the birth certificate and this is where we need some more help. The bus came back with the colors listed as Velvet Green/Pearl White (certificate shown below)...now the original colors were Mango Green and Seagull Grey as photo proof by Ron and if you look good on the bus itself you can find spots of the correct paint colors. Has anyone else ever had the wrong colors come back on their birth certificate from Wolfsburg? I don't remember Velvet Green and Pearl White being available in 1959, has anyone ever seen this or a two tone Kombi of these colors that early? The M code plate is stamped F23 for SO-23, but that M code was not listed on the birth certificate, yet all the other ones are. Is there a reason that Volkswagen would not know this was an original So-23. Did they send the buses out to Westfalia and then Westfalia later stamped the M code plates?

It's not at all uncommon for VW Birth Certificates to be wrong. You are correct about those colors not being available in '59.

Westfalia had their own paint but they didn't stamp m-code plates that I've ever heard of.

Ok, so that is something to consider about the paint making a change, but still sticks us without those colors being available...

here is own that may seem as a no brainer, but, could a euro bus not have semi's

Without doing your homework for you that's a us spec (SF Delivered) bus.

Haven't you guys sold enough of these to decode a m-plate? :lol:

Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:24 am

Anchovy wrote: The mcode plate appears to be an original 1959 plate with the notches on each side. The SK 693 code is Mango Green and Seagull Gray so it looks like VW gave you a bad b/c assuming the VIN on the b/c matches the one on the mcode plate. Often times VW will list the interior colors or special notes below the blue line on the b/c but we cannot see it in your photo. Is there anything there from VW?

Also, VW is saying "unknown" for the 544 Mcode, but it is referenced as: "Kundendienstwerkstatt", (i.e. "service room", special place for conversions made by Volkswagen itself). here in the technical section of thesamba.

nothing bro, thats what we got! :D thanx