TheSamba.com :: View topic - Gene Berg's opinion on Gauges... So what's a good gauge?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:42 pm

If VDO, Smith, Hawk, etc... are no good, what are some good, high quality gauges? Or is GB just blowing smoke?? :lol:

Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:56 pm

No Gene Berg wasn't blowing smoke - on anything he did. What he did do was test vw operation and so-called performance equipment and techniques and report the facts. He was a true pioneer, who published what he found.

To get "high quality" automotive gauges you would have to add at least a zero onto the cost of virtually any automotive gauge you will see in auto parts stores. It must be realized that automotive gauges are made for cheap and they face a physical environment tougher in many respects than occurs on a space-launch vehicle. And the way they are installed on cars by many owners can add another dimension or two to gauge inaccuracy.

Many years ago I tested a Stewart-Warner "high quality" oil pressure gauge and sender in an aerospace airborne instrumentation lab. You could safely say that the gauge indicated there was pressure.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:09 pm

stuvw2mny wrote:
Many years ago I tested a Stewart-Warner "high quality" oil pressure gauge and sender in an aerospace airborne instrumentation lab. You could safely say that the gauge indicated there was pressure.

How was it's accuracy? I'm leaning toward buying oil temp and pressure gauges and I'm looking at the Stewart Warner Green Line gauges.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:12 pm

You might consider aircraft gauges.

Max

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:21 pm

Max Welton wrote: You might consider aircraft gauges.

Max

Funny you say that... I used to work on A/C instruments in the Navy... I was jut thinking "why didn't I take a couple of old, obsolete gauges??" I remember throwing out some really cool analogue gauges. I managed to hang onto a couple of altimeters, a lot of good they'll do me :)

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:24 pm

stuvw2mny wrote: No Gene Berg wasn't blowing smoke - on anything he did. What he did do was test vw operation and so-called performance equipment and techniques and report the facts.
I disagree.

He made many wild claims that could NEVER be substantiated. His opinion on gauges is one. He claimed they were all very inaccurate. How could anyone believe he was able to test every gauge ever made?

He certainly didn't test the gauges I own. When I tested my oil temp gauges and senders, they were all within the needle width of spot on.

His opinion on compression ratios has been widely debunked.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:30 pm

SLCmark wrote: Max Welton wrote: You might consider aircraft gauges.

Max

Funny you say that... I used to work on A/C instruments in the Navy... I was jut thinking "why didn't I take a couple of old, obsolete gauges??" I remember throwing out some really cool analogue gauges. I managed to hang onto a couple of altimeters, a lot of good they'll do me :)
I've been looking through some of these for my KG.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/

To the OP, you should never trust what the "experts" (internet or otherwise) say. Free advice from strangers is over-priced. They have no stake in the accuracy of their information.

In other words, do your own testing. Draw your own conclusions. Think for yourself.

Max

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:33 pm

Bruce wrote: stuvw2mny wrote: No Gene Berg wasn't blowing smoke - on anything he did. What he did do was test vw operation and so-called performance equipment and techniques and report the facts.
I disagree.

He made many wild claims that could NEVER be substantiated. His opinion on gauges is one. He claimed they were all very inaccurate. How could anyone believe he was able to test every gauge ever made?

He certainly didn't test the gauges I own. When I tested my oil temp gauges and senders, they were all within the needle width of spot on.

His opinion on compression ratios has been widely debunked.

Is the world ending? :lol: I actually agree with Bruce on this one, manufacturing standards have improved since Gene did his articles on guages and its rare to find a gauge that far out of calibration that its unusable in our application, I never quote a reading as fact, they are just a guide/indicator, until you get into certified test guages.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:52 pm

Bruce wrote: His opinion on gauges is one. He claimed they were all very inaccurate. How could anyone believe he was able to test every gauge ever made?.

That's exactly how I feel about GB's rant on indicators. I'm posting this to get a feel on which models to exclude. It seems VDO, one he mentions in his article, are widely used and very accurate. The main variable being sending unit placement. Stewart Warner has been around for a very long time, and VDO are in practically everything. These two brands haven't gotten where they are by being inaccurate.

Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:12 pm

66brm wrote: Bruce wrote: stuvw2mny wrote: No Gene Berg wasn't blowing smoke - on anything he did. What he did do was test vw operation and so-called performance equipment and techniques and report the facts.
I disagree.

He made many wild claims that could NEVER be substantiated. His opinion on gauges is one. He claimed they were all very inaccurate. How could anyone believe he was able to test every gauge ever made?

He certainly didn't test the gauges I own. When I tested my oil temp gauges and senders, they were all within the needle width of spot on.

His opinion on compression ratios has been widely debunked.

Is the world ending? :lol:
Not until next Dec, silly!

Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:03 am

Stack meters/gauges has good reputation. And just while ago, Volksworld or some other vw-magazine tested temp gauges. Stack was the best in test.

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:10 am

Let's see now... Gene's been dead for how many years now? 15?
I would hope that gauge quality and accuracy has increased since then.
Mind you the Chinese presence, invading all markets, has forced us to be more diligent in our search for quality product.

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:44 am

Dougy Dee wrote: Let's see now... Gene's been dead for how many years now? 15?
I would hope that gauge quality and accuracy has increased since then.
Mind you the Chinese presence, invading all markets, has forced us to be more diligent in our search for quality product.
While technology advances can make better gauges (and many other things) possible, what is available on the market will still be driven by market forces. The bulk of the ACVW market wants to drive a classic VW on a bicyle budget.

Max

Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:48 pm

ANY gauges are better than none. VDO arent the best or most accurate, but like bruce said just test them against cheap candy thermometers or IR temp gauges and you will get an idea how "off" they are.

Id rather have a CHT gauge that I know is off a bit and see a trend of a hot head than to just wait till the exhaust valve breaks off and I know for sure its too hot

Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:01 pm

I reckon where they're going wrong is actually putting numbers on the dials at all. I'm not looking for accurate measurements in a gauge, just 'deviation from normal', which the VDOs do very well.

Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:48 pm

I really like the GB temperature dipstick. It turns the green light on if any problem arises. You can check it's accuracy, too. Boiling water trick or stick a thermometer in your dipstick receiver hole to know your cars 'running' temps for comparison. It's a nice, simple tool that doesn't require drilling holes and stuff.

Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:51 pm

boxkiteflyer wrote: I really like the GB temperature dipstick. It turns the green light on if any problem arises. You can check it's accuracy, too. Boiling water trick or stick a thermometer in your dipstick receiver hole to know your cars 'running' temps for comparison. It's a nice, simple tool that doesn't require drilling holes and stuff.

Doesnt really tell you if your heads are melting though.

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:39 pm

I've used numerous VDO temperature gauges and senders over the last 30 years and have yet to find one that wasn't accurate to within a couple degrees F...they're good quality products.

Volkworld magazine did a test of several brands in one of their recent issues. IIRC, they all tested within a couple degrees of actual temps and the only other variation was in "response time". You get what you pay for was the main result...stick with name brands.

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:42 am

boxkiteflyer wrote: I really like the GB temperature dipstick. It turns the green light on if any problem arises. You can check it's accuracy, too. Boiling water trick or stick a thermometer in your dipstick receiver hole to know your cars 'running' temps for comparison. It's a nice, simple tool that doesn't require drilling holes and stuff.

i took mine out because it was bitch to check the oil easily the way i like to do it.