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cookrw Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:05 pm

What has to be done to successfully make a 1600 a 1776? From what I have read, the case needs to get bored out to 90.5mm, but what else?
Can I use the rest of the stock 1600 internals? Do I need to do anything to the head? I know it will increase my CR, but would it be a problem past me maybe needing to run a higher octane gas?

fivelugshortaxle Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:22 pm

Stock 1600 pistons are 85.5 mm.....1776 pistons are 90.5.....the case gets cut a bit bigger for the cylinders....stock heads will work but you really only gain a bit of HP without head work....a stock valved head with mild port work and a good valve job will really wake up a 1776....that and a nice set od dual carbs....some 36's or even 40's.....throw in a nice mild cam like an Engle 110 or scat c35 and you've got yourself a nice little street motor with a good bit more power than stock and will feel like a ton more power in a lightweight beetle.....1776 is a good mild street motor that will last a looooong time if built correctly.

gt1953 Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:53 pm

What has to be done to successfully make a 1600 a 1776?
$$$.$$ Balance the crank shaft for smoother running. you can use stock heads and valves but work them over for more air in and more air out of the cylinder.

DarthWeber Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:16 pm

Case and heads need to be bored. I recommend tapping the case for full flow oiling too. You can re-use the stock rods but I recommend counterweighting the crank. Everyone always says "Oh my motor will never see over 5k" but most people don't have that kind of control. For maximum case life a CW crank is a small investment.

For CR, going from 1600 to 1776cc, your CR will increase roughly from 7.5:1 to a little over 8:1 Shouldn't really be a problem other than maybe needing higher octane gas.

What are you going to use the engine for? What is your budget? Would you consider upgrading your heads, adding a cam, dual carbs, exhaust? All these would make the engine more efficient and powerful rather than just adding a set of P/C's.

cookrw Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:51 pm

At this point, I am doing a hypothetical build to start saving up for. I would like to get a long-life engine with more power than a 1600, and a 1776 looks like it is the most reliable. So, budget is not a problem right now.

DarthWeber Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:30 pm

Don't discount the 1835. With the thick wall 92's available from AA I believe they would be just as reliable as 90.5's.

Also, don't forget about a small stroker crank like a 74mm. That would give you 1968cc (or 1904cc with 90.5 P/C's) and would be a very reliable foundation to base your engine on.

As I mentioned before, the addition of carbs/heads/exhaust and cam will determine how mild or wild you choose to go.

cookrw Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:49 pm

DarthWeber wrote: Don't discount the 1835. With the thick wall 92's available from AA I believe they would be just as reliable as 90.5's.

Also, don't forget about a small stroker crank like a 74mm. That would give you 1968cc (or 1904cc with 90.5 P/C's) and would be a very reliable foundation to base your engine on.

As I mentioned before, the addition of carbs/heads/exhaust and cam will determine how mild or wild you choose to go.
I haven't discounted the 1835, I am just wary of going with that large of a motor. For just normal highway driving and puttering around, but with more torque, and the ability to actually go highway speed, which size would be the longest lasting?
I haven't really ever heard of the stroker crank much, so off to do some research!

gt1953 Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:12 pm

Stroker crank...not much more in cost over a counter weighted ballanced 69mm crank. 74mm or 76 mm. You will get more torque. You can then use 85.5 pistons and very little head work.
A 76mm crank with 85.5 pistons is a 1745cc. I actually have that in one of my cars it the Hot VW mileage engine.

Henrip Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:13 am

Actually I was thinking in build a 74mm with 87 piston, stock valves only port work, C35 cam and a central Italian 40 for my daily drive...

Has anyone tried this setup before?

DarthWeber Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:24 am

Henrip, I assume a central Italian 40 is a single Weber 40IDF. You'd be much better off with dual 40IDF's. Easier to tune and more potential power, drivability and fuel mileage. I strongly recommend dual carbs.

Sorry for the hyjack Cookrw.

Are you aware of the P/C's in the link below? These 88's are thick wall machine in making them much more reliable than 87's. The base of the cylinders are turned down so they fit the stock 85.5 case spigot. All you'll need is to have your heads opened up to fit the cylinders.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=806472

I like your combo. 1760 (or 1800 w/88's), mildly ported stock valve heads, Weber 40IDF's, C35 cam, 1 3/8" exhaust will work if you don't do a lot of high speed driving.

Krusher has a similar 1800 (88 x 74), this is his dyno chart:


cookrw Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:39 pm

This looks very interesting. I have an email in with some questions about these. Has anyone used this before?
DarthWeber wrote: Are you aware of the P/C's in the link below? These 88's are thick wall machine in making them much more reliable than 87's. The base of the cylinders are turned down so they fit the stock 85.5 case spigot. All you'll need is to have your heads opened up to fit the cylinders.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=806472

cookrw Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:43 pm

Also, if I am getting the head worked on, what else should I do? From what I understand, airflow through the head is what limits my max rpm, so just to be safe, should I keep it stock? What benefits happen if I do other things to the head?

Henrip Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:36 am

DarthWeber wrote: Henrip, I assume a central Italian 40 is a single Weber 40IDF. You'd be much better off with dual 40IDF's. Easier to tune and more potential power, drivability and fuel mileage. I strongly recommend dual carbs.

Are you aware of the P/C's in the link below? These 88's are thick wall machine in making them much more reliable than 87's. The base of the cylinders are turned down so they fit the stock 85.5 case spigot. All you'll need is to have your heads opened up to fit the cylinders.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=806472

I like your combo. 1760 (or 1800 w/88's), mildly ported stock valve heads, Weber 40IDF's, C35 cam, 1 3/8" exhaust will work if you don't do a lot of high speed driving.

Thanks for your response and help... I will try to go with duals.

I was worry about the thickness of the cylinder piston in this 88s set.
Thanks again for the link.

66 Shorty Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:00 am

Henrip wrote: Actually I was thinking in build a 74mm with 87 piston, stock valves only port work, C35 cam and a central Italian 40 for my daily drive...

Has anyone tried this setup before?

Sounds like the 1760 motor I'm gettin ready to build!
I have the 87mm pistons, C35 cam, looking into getting the stroker crank & some rods... I was going to go with Uni-Tech rods, but, they are STILL out of stock! :roll: I have a set of dual carbs for it. (I just don't remember what size he said they were :oops: ) I'm using stock heads/valves, (unless I hit the lotery & get new heads :lol: ) & I'm going to use solid shafts with stock rockers. I'm hoping to get away with stock pushrods, but, I don't think I can... Not sure, I AM using Scat single Hi-Rev springs...

Still undecided on what rods & length to go with, 5.500, 5.400, 5.394, 5.354, etc...

Mine's going in a Buggy, so, I'm thinking it should move it pretty well!

mark tucker Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:41 am

if it's a 76-84 crank I would use 5.5 rods, well I would use them on 74 also.but I do have the 5.4 uni's in my 2028 with 78.8 mm crank, but had to trim the cylinders shorter.longer rods & shims are alot easyer unless you can do it your self.

bertha64 Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:40 am

gt1953 wrote: Stroker crank...not much more in cost over a counter weighted ballanced 69mm crank. 74mm or 76 mm. You will get more torque. You can then use 85.5 pistons and very little head work.
A 76mm crank with 85.5 pistons is a 1745cc. I actually have that in one of my cars it the Hot VW mileage engine.

Would this motor be faster than 1776 stock crank and can you use stock rods?

andk5591 Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:51 am

Throwing this out there - it costs about the same to build a 1914. Getting a few extra cc's out of the deal isnt a bad thing. And keep in mind that you want to build an engine based on what you are going to use it for. Huge ports, high lift monster header and all are great for high RPMs, but for a street engine, you will rarely see 5000 RPMS. And you can get a LOT of low end grunt from a 1914.

And staying conservative will give you longer life as well. Modest cam or ratio rockers, ported stock or mild aftermarket heads will do a lot for you. Quality filter pump or full flow is a great idea as well. Also keep the header size small 1 3/8" ish.

Mal evolent Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:30 am

discount the 1835 if you live in the southwest. thin cylinder walls, uneven heat dissipation, 115 degree days...

[email protected] Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:35 am

http://vwparts.simple-helix.net/1800cc-vw-engine-no-machine-combo/

has some great tips and things to think about for what you are doing.

clonebug Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:19 pm

I just had the 1679cc engine built and will be boosting it to at least 12 lbs.
I'm using the 88 mm thick walls from acnet.

We'll see how it holds up.
I don't see a problem for street use.

It should be fun...... :wink:



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