TheSamba.com :: View topic - T1 1966 6-volt

Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:48 pm

Im new here. This is my first project car and it will be a keeper since it comes from family. Were starting with what i believe to be a pretty solid pan but lots of rust under the wheel wells and front and rear lids. Its in a no start condition and has been setting for aprox 5 years like this. Doing the minimal stuff first: tune up kit, plugs, oil and strainer, break shoe and drum clean up, about 6 hours of engine cleaning, and a growing whish list of parts. Suprisingly, the battery has water in it and is holding a charge. After setting the valves to .008 while on jacks, I discovered in the idiot guide it says never to lift the car when setting valves..but it does not go on to explain why? Whats more, ive discovered what I thought was a TDC mark may actually be 7.5BTDC. (2 notches on the wheel) just have to go back over to the shop and take a picture of it to research tomorrow in the forum strings ~So it begins~ More to come on this.

Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:11 pm

Welcome, and post pics so we can folllow your progres.

You may also want to re-adjust the valves to .006, the correct gap for your engine.

Don't worry about the lift... it just avoids some oil drips through the pushrod tubes, supposedly. I never had any trouble.

Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:35 am

inthecorn wrote: After setting the valves to .008 while on jacks, I discovered in the idiot guide it says never to lift the car when setting valves..but it does not go on to explain why?

First of all, if you've got mid-1965 or newer heads on there, the factory specification for valve adjustment was originally .004", revised retroactively around the start of model year 1972 to .006", which is likely what you should use. (only original "long stud" heads from the early-mid 60s have bigger valve adjustment settings - and there are not very many of those around any more!)

Second - I think the "don't jack it up" warning was mostly trying to keep you safe - the job is doable without doing that and if you do jack it up there's danger of the car falling on you. But as far as the valves are concerned, as long as the engine is reasonably cool, it could be at any angle and you still could adjust them fine.

Notches on the pulley, are crucial for timing, of course, but for timing aren't nearly as important, as the "sweet spot" for adjusting valves occurs for several degrees on either side of TDC.

-Andy

Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:47 am

If the battery has been sitting for five years, replace it, even if it appears to hold a charge.

If you must, you can load test it by hooking a voltmeter across it and reading the voltage while trying to crank. If the battery voltage drops more than about twenty percent (below 9.6 volts for a twelve-volt car, 4.8 for a six-volt one), the battery is problematic. If the battery has been sitting uncharged for years, it is unlikely (but not impossible) it will pass this test.

However, any five-year-old battery is nearing the end of its life. Just replace it. If it's not trouble now, it will be, soon.

Finally, a question and some unsolicited advice. If the car was in the family, can you find out why it was parked all those years ago?

Do yourself a favor and check the compression and endplay on the engine before going any further. You need this information to make intelligent decisions about what to spend time and money on.

Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:08 pm

First of all, thank you for the warm welcome and usefull advice. As for the pictures, im getting use to this BBCode and will have some pics up when i have time to figure it out. Im going to stay with .008 on the valves for the time being. Reset in the spring to.006. Spent today on the breaks: taking off the shoes and drums etc and cleaning them up. The cylinders and master cylinder have aprox 1100 miles on them and no leaks there! Shoes look great. Had fun playing with the stars and got everthing back together after grease packing the front bearings. The battery will be replaced; im just wanting to achieve spark for now ~ and my distributor parts came today so im heading back over to work some more : ) Thanks for the feedback.

Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:47 pm

@Hammerlaund~ the car was parked because it had a "timing problem" and no one knew what to do with it. Its a sad case of bad and unfortunate logistical problems and lack of initiave. it sat outside, here in the midwest, for way too long. Now its going to have lots of potential problems and im going to learn alot! On another note, Im getting that battery soon. Regarding compression testing, i would love to do that because there was not a whole lot of resistance during manual hand turning through the compression stroke. However, i currently dont have tools to do a compression test so i will be trying to achieve spark until i get them.

The distributor is back together and back in. Stoppeed at #2 spark plug installation because it seemed like it was not threading correctly, lots o resistance. So i removed it to find perfect plug threads... Looked at the plug port with a mirror and flashlight to reveal nothing odd. Attempted to install a plug in #2 twice more, and removed it as many times because i swear its not seated but feels like its out of threads with resistance. Looking with the mirror and flashlight, and comparing the appearance between #1 and #2, with plug #2 feeling like it was out of threads, i saw a difference of what i would guess is a half an inch or so. It was time to stop for the night. Plug removed and inspected to reveal perfect threads. What in the Alferd Hitchcock is going on here?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:49 am

Here are some pics, will post fewer at once in the future

Ive found that cleaning your brake components is a must!!!!

pretty sure i set the valves to 7.5BTDC, going to print the wheel out and go from there for reset.

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:01 am

Exterior shots ! Had to do an edit to one of them :D

Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:35 pm

I should have mentioned: if you're going to buy a six volt battery, spend the extra bucks and get a premium one - the cheap ones are worthless nowadays.

I personally like the Optima very, very much. It's well worth the extra money in my opinion.

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:35 pm

Hammarlund wrote: I should have mentioned: if you're going to buy a six volt battery, spend the extra bucks and get a premium one - the cheap ones are worthless nowadays.

I personally like the Optima very, very much. It's well worth the extra money in my opinion.

Thank you, will surely look into this Optima for 6vlt.

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:41 am

@Hammarlund
Looks like the Optima Red Top is a waterless battery and can lay on its side as long as the positive is secure. This is a major plus because its not going to fit in the well upright according to what ive been reading! Amazon has one with 800 cranking amps for $125 w/ free shipping. Thanks again for the mention. Im sold on this. Going to double check the well dimensions again first though : ) and see how local distributors prices vary.

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:51 am

Quote: This is a plus because its not going to fit in the well upright according to what ive been reading!

It certainly won't fit in the stock battery holder. However, several of us use them in an upright position, with nice, thick plastic mats on top of the battery to insulate the terminals from the seat springs, just in case. You will have to improvise a hold-down of some sort.

Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:14 pm

Today was kind of a bummer. That number 2 plug is not threading. Using a thread chaser tomorrow, if that does not work the engine is coming out. We did get the original axle boot covers off, on a good note, and have some splits to go on...may just take the exhaust off to put these on and that way if we have to pull the engine were half way there.

Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:12 am

I know that you are anxious to get it started - but take a little bit and think it through if you want to go 12V or not before you invest in a new battery. Maybe try to use what you have until you decide or borrow one.

If on the other hand you are staying 6V - yeah the Optima can be mounted on its side.

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:23 pm

Engine has been removed and the #2 plug is in. Taking the engine out was easier than i thought :?: Getting the new axle boot covers on was a bit time consuming! Will have some engine pics up when i remember to take my camera with me. There is so much more to clean now.

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:43 pm

Axle boots - theres lots of posts but the seam does NOT go at 12 oclock. Just a reminder. And remember to have fun....

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:33 pm

andk5591 wrote: Axle boots - theres lots of posts but the seam does NOT go at 12 oclock. Just a reminder. And remember to have fun....

Eh? Per the instructions that came with the boots, anywhere from 10 through 2 is supposed to be optimal. Why is it you do not recommend 12?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:38 pm

Arrggh! Keep forgetting the camera. Cleaning up the fan shroud and tin that has been removed from the engine. Pprepping for repaint on this. Removed the original fan baffles from the fan shroud as the vents were sticking.

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:49 am

The instructions probably say 10 OR 2 o'clock. Thats where I set mine. Look at the boot where the seam is - see how massive and stiff that area is? You would be putting that area where it would get the most deflections and stress if at 12. Man, I am glad I mentioned it because your gonna have problems.

OK - since you didnt do any digging on the right way to install boots - here's a quick and dirty.

All surfaces MUST be VERY clean - After a good wipe, I like starter fluid as a solvent to remove residual oil. (By the way, if you have already put gear oil in the tranny, you dont have to drain it - will cover that in a sec.)

If the tranny has fluid, jack one side of the car up as high as you are comfortable with and then jack the wheel on that side until the axle is straight (relative to the car - not the floor) Now the boot would be in a relaxed position. Install it with the seam around 2-3 o'clock and only tighten the big flange. Now push the small end of the boot toward the tranny about 3/8" or so (compressing it) and tighten the small end. Repeat on the other side and top of tranny oil.

This procedure (or damn close to it) is pretty much standard on here. I personally dont enjoy doing boots, so I only want to do it once.

Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:13 am

that is a really nice car good luck with it and enjoy 8)