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Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:54 pm

juanb wrote: j_dirge wrote:

Juan will be loaded down on his way to Argentina.. I may be old, old school :wink: .. but I'd be inclined to be a little taller in the rear to handle the expedition load.

Even given that, I'd be very hesitant to run with a spring/shock combination that overextends the shock that much.
I'd select an appropriate shock to match the syncro spring.

And that depends on were you set your budget. .. The syncro spring is taller than your OEM and in all likely-hood, in better shape than the springs you have installed now that sag from side to side.

Short of your syncro springs, in hand.. the choices for new springs are really limited. And most have the same problems you currently face.
I am thinking that suspension travel, load carryng capacity, and ground clearance are priorities for your trip.

I would choose a taller spring over a shorter one w/spacers in a heartbeat.

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:31 pm

j_dirge wrote:
I'd select an appropriate shock to match the syncro spring.

And that depends on were you set your budget. .. The syncro spring is taller than your OEM and in all likely-hood, in better shape than the springs you have installed now that sag from side to side.

Short of your syncro springs, in hand.. the choices for new springs are really limited. And most have the same problems you currently face.
I am thinking that suspension travel, load carryng capacity, and ground clearance are priorities for your trip.

I would choose a taller spring over a shorter one w/spacers in a heartbeat.

Fair enough, this seems like sounds advice, thanks Jim. I am still a bit afraid of ending up with a van that is too high. So I'll sit on this for a few weeks and see what happens.

If it came to that, would it be possible to get Syncro shocks to go with the taller springs? Or, perhaps the Monroe 58595 ones I see discussed in other threads?

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:05 pm

j_dirge wrote: Do you recall how much taller the syncro springs were compared to the Moog 5660s?

If you mean front springs, the Syncro front springs are much shorter than the Moog 5660. The front suspension design is different for Syncro, so the front spring is shorter but the ride height is higher. It's possible to use Syncro front springs on 2WD but it will be a low rider.

The rear Syncro springs on my van were just under 18.5". I think to keep the suspension working well it's best to keep it around 17" in the front. The rear doesn't have the problems of the front, but I think having the rear any more than 0.5" greater than the front (in this case 17.5") would look silly and adversely affect handling. I would not recommend using the Syncro rear springs.

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:08 pm

Juan

Another option, contact Samba member targis58. He is also in the Bay Area and rides a 2WD Westy with Bilstein HD and GoWesty 2WD 1.5 lift springs. He is very happy with his setup and has joined the Los Burros gang with Jon Slider for some offroad action. Maybe you can test drive targis58 van before making up your mind.

Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:42 pm

He has a pretty nice ride height without being too tall.
Runs back out of 2wd conversation

Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:15 am

presslab wrote: j_dirge wrote: Do you recall how much taller the syncro springs were compared to the Moog 5660s?

If you mean front springs, the Syncro front springs are much shorter than the Moog 5660. The front suspension design is different for Syncro, so the front spring is shorter but the ride height is higher. It's possible to use Syncro front springs on 2WD but it will be a low rider.

The rear Syncro springs on my van were just under 18.5". I think to keep the suspension working well it's best to keep it around 17" in the front. The rear doesn't have the problems of the front, but I think having the rear any more than 0.5" greater than the front (in this case 17.5") would look silly and adversely affect handling. I would not recommend using the Syncro rear springs.
Yes.. talking about the rear syncro springs only. And I agree more than +0.5" is not a great end-result. That's where I sit with a spacer now, +.75"-.5".. Am tuning to get back to around +0.25" in the rear.

I was not aware that the syncro rears were that tall... at 18.5. Wow. Agreed, too much for a 17" front end.

Going through my alignment process, I found that 17-1/2 to 17-3/4" in front was maximum before alignment spec could not be maintained (with drivers weight in the van)

I am curious how a forward rake (taller in rear) would effect the stock braking with VWs proportioning valve, too.

I am also VERY curious about Burley's 5" spring perch.... No photos on his site, yet. But that opens up the aftermarket spring options and would allow us a myriad of rates to choose from. I sent him an email.

Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:36 am

syncrodoka wrote: He has a pretty nice ride height without being too tall.
Runs back out of 2wd conversation

Ok that s me

I wasnt at the meet up but let me give my measurement

I have bfg 215 75 15 tires on Rhein wheels, bilstein H D shocks with GW 2wd lift springs.

My front average measurement is about 18.25 and rear is about 17.75

My shortened Subaru oil pan is about 11.5 in from ground

Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:57 am

targis58 wrote:
My front average measurement is about 18.25 and rear is about 17.75

Is that correct? The rear is lower than th efront by 0.5"?

(nice looking van, BTW!)

Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:17 am

just got my Moog springs in the mail, and mistakenly ordered/received 2 pairs... If anyone in the SF bay area is after some, you can have them for $50 in the box...

Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:52 pm

conchyjoe wrote: just got my Moog springs in the mail, and mistakenly ordered/received 2 pairs... If anyone in the SF bay area is after some, you can have them for $50 in the box...

PM sent.

Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:29 pm

j_dirge wrote: targis58 wrote:
My front average measurement is about 18.25 and rear is about 17.75

Is that correct? The rear is lower than th efront by 0.5"?

(nice looking van, BTW!)

Thanks.

Btw, is my rear too low compare to the front?

Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:15 pm

Stats on my vanagon '89 GL weekender converted to a poptop
(#10 on the picture list)

Van Cafe 2wd springs (I'm told these are syncro.org springs)
Ride height- Rear:17.5" , Front: 17.25"
Bilsteins @ all 4
16" CLK wheels with 215-65-15 Michelin Lattitude Tour HP
Very smooth and quiet riding tires
Burley read disc brakes (great improvement from stock drums and parking brakes work great especially at boat ramps with a 3seater jet ski
Front big disc brakes, 284mm, in the works
Full size spare tire with CLK rim, using a modified clamshell

Ride is firm but not harsh, much better than stock. Very happy with this setup for highway driving and occasional fire roads. Spring have been ib use since july of '11, no sagging at all.
I would like to try front anti-sway bars and Koni adjustable shocks

Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:47 pm

Welcome to The Samba

It looks like we have a similar setup.

I also have Burley audi based rear disks plus Burley tubular upper control arms, 1" sway bar, poly bushings. Maybe you should test drive my van to get a feeling for the Konis and sway bar...

By the way, I think you meant you have 215/65-16 tires

vwcsmann wrote: Stats on my vanagon '89 GL weekender converted to a poptop
(#10 on the picture list)

Van Cafe 2wd springs (I'm told these are syncro.org springs)
Ride height- Rear:17.5" , Front: 17.25"
Bilsteins @ all 4
16" CLK wheels with 215-65-15 Michelin Lattitude Tour HP
Very smooth and quiet riding tires
Burley read disc brakes (great improvement from stock drums and parking brakes work great especially at boat ramps with a 3seater jet ski
Front big disc brakes, 284mm, in the works
Full size spare tire with CLK rim, using a modified clamshell

Ride is firm but not harsh, much better than stock. Very happy with this setup for highway driving and occasional fire roads. Spring have been ib use since july of '11, no sagging at all.
I would like to try front anti-sway bars and Koni adjustable shocks

Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:16 pm

OK, change of plans for me.

Too much trouble with deciding what to do about the rear springs. So I just bit the bullet and ordered the GoWesty no-lift springs from Van Cafe. Acording to Peter that should leave me around 17.5 on the front, 17.25 on the back. Right now, with my stock everything, I'm at 16 and 16.75 on the front (driver/pass) and 15.75 and 16.5 on the back.

This will give me a nice little lift. If I want more, I still have the spacers I made.

This leaves me with a set of Moog 5660, new in the box as well. I can probably send them back to Amazon. But if anyone in the Bay Area is interested, they are yours for $50.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:55 am

j_dirge wrote: My forearm is beginning to itch again..

These may solve a LOT of problems for the rear.. in matching to the front.

dammit. these quarters are burning a hole in my pocket. 8)

I like the bottom piece that keep the spring straight in line.
I don't remember that part on Burley's website....

This setup looks really sweet, I'll be sad to get road salt on them in the winter.

I am watching your thread since I am looking at something to replace my old GW and OME kit on my 7 Pass Syncro with something adjustable (more interested in adjustable shocks than springs...) to get some ideas.

Thanks for doing a comparo of everything.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:21 am

bluefirefly wrote: j_dirge wrote: My forearm is beginning to itch again..

These may solve a LOT of problems for the rear.. in matching to the front.

I like the bottom piece that keep the spring straight in line.
I don't remember that part on Burley's website....

This setup looks really sweet, I'll be sad to get road salt on them in the winter.

I am watching your thread since I am looking at something to replace my old GW and OME kit on my 7 Pass Syncro with something adjustable (more interested in adjustable shocks than springs...) to get some ideas.

Thanks for doing a comparo of everything.
Burley has them listed on his site "adjustable 5" spring perch".. but no pics yet.
Yeah.. road salt and sand.. And I was thinking of those drives I used to take along miles of baja beaches splashing thru in-incoming tide surge.
Almost too pretty for that. :lol:

Burley is working on his own version of adjustable shocks. I'd recommend emailing him directly as he has been putting in serious time on this new development specifically for syncros.
If you pop over to Jon Slider's GW Fox shock thread.. Burley posts near the end about his.. but he's not letting on yet on his shock choice until its dialed.

In other developments. The new Syncro.org lift springs for 2WD are getting closer.
Maybe only a couple weeks out.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:37 am

j_dirge wrote: bluefirefly wrote: j_dirge wrote: My forearm is beginning to itch again..

These may solve a LOT of problems for the rear.. in matching to the front.

I like the bottom piece that keep the spring straight in line.
I don't remember that part on Burley's website....

This setup looks really sweet, I'll be sad to get road salt on them in the winter.

I am watching your thread since I am looking at something to replace my old GW and OME kit on my 7 Pass Syncro with something adjustable (more interested in adjustable shocks than springs...) to get some ideas.

Thanks for doing a comparo of everything.
Burley has them listed on his site "adjustable 5" spring perch".. but no pics yet. He sent me these pics directly.

Yeah.. road salt and sand.. And I was thinking of those drives I used to take along miles of baja beaches splashing thru in-incoming tide surge.
Almost too pretty for that. :lol:

Burley is working on his own version of adjustable shocks. I'd recommend emailing him directly as he has been putting in serious time on this new development specifically for syncros.
If you pop over to Jon Slider's GW Fox shock thread.. Burley posts near the end about his.. but he's not letting on yet on his shock choice until its dialed.

In other developments. The new Syncro.org lift springs for 2WD are getting closer.
Maybe only a couple weeks out.

Thanks a lot for your answer.
I am looking at that thread too but I won't go for GW setup (have my own reason...) and I have some time ahead of me since our conversion isn't done yet (G60 at the back).
Burley system should be nice as usual but I need to do more research for springs rate to accommodate my specific van setup.
I am pretty sure he'll find something good for me. I would like some adjustable shocks for those big 215/85-16 summer tires and lighter 215/70-16 in the winter.

To bad we are a little far from your meeting point, otherwise we'll love to join you.

Have a good day

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:43 am

$375 for the Burley adjustable perches? For me, that doesn't solve any problems, it just creates a new one. How do you justify that much for mounts when you're installing $75 springs? Ugh.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:26 am

j_dirge wrote:

Where is the bump stop?

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:33 am

PDXWesty wrote: $375 for the Burley adjustable perches? For me, that doesn't solve any problems, it just creates a new one. How do you justify that much for mounts when you're installing $75 springs? Ugh. I dunno.
I justified $900 for custom rear control arms to install $99 tire chains that I probably won't use but maybe 3 or 4 times a year.
Well.. that and I wanted the room to run a big tire that can be aired down and/or won't destroy itself if it flats. :D

$375?.. maybe too rich for some.. For several in this thread, the goal of a level and adjustable ride, regadless the van configuration, is important enough to maybe invest.

I understand its not everyone's cup of tea.. If anything this thread has taught me there is no one simple solution. In fact, everyone I talked with at our meet up.. and those I traded emails with since then, we've all encountered differing challenges related to varying goals.