TheSamba.com :: View topic - Thinking about doing a TDI swap (geez another engine swap??)

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:22 pm

Your right that is a great question...but I still stand by my original post minus the tank reseal (didn't know it didn't HAVE to be resealed). Most of the stuff that I posted lines up with what Andrew said: diesel bits, electronics, clutch, starter, intake and exhaust, intercooler. The trick with the intake, exahust, intercooler and electronics is that there are many solutions that can be had with varying prices....and I haven't gotten that far yet....lol.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:28 pm

Andrew A. Libby wrote: The rest of the costs are:

the engine
the wiring if electronic or pump if mechanical
the intercooler system
the stock diesel vanagon conversion bits
the coolant hoses if they didn't come with the DV bits
the intake and exhaust
upgraded clutch

There are other incidentals like gauges, cruise control if mechanical, custom oil filler tube to license plate if using A/C and PS, custom dipstick and tube to license plate, new oil pump, new water pump, new alt, etc, etc, etc...

It appears that the engine, clutch and pump-work are the major drivers here. I bought a complete '82 50 degree kit for $400, including good hoses that will work until I can afford the nifty silicone jobs. The rest is mostly labor (for me), since I have a ton of aluminum/mild steel tubing, hoses and intercooler options, and a mig welder. I also have a 4BT pump in waiting, along with a few other pump spares. Any engine I buy is going to get a partial teardown with rings, rod bearings, ground/lapped valves and stem seals + assorted bits n' pieces. With all of that accounted for and compiled, I'm still not seeing the mega budgets folks keep bandying about on the Samba.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:32 pm

TDI_VT wrote: Your right that is a great question...but I still stand by my original post minus the tank reseal (didn't know it didn't HAVE to be resealed). Most of the stuff that I posted lines up with what Andrew said: diesel bits, electronics, clutch, starter, intake and exhaust, intercooler. The trick with the intake, exahust, intercooler and electronics is that there are many solutions that can be had with varying prices....and I haven't gotten that far yet....lol.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative at all. There just seems to be a lot of folks here who appear to be hell-bent on poo-pooing this particular swap, and they use some of the astronomical figures as one point of contention. I just want to tease out truth from noise. It's all money coming out of your wallet, so it makes sense that you view the expenditures as all related. I get that.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:35 pm

I would tend to agree with you...most of the extra costs are incidentals, so in that sense the mega expensive TDi conversion is really a myth. Most people (myself included) lump the cost of the van and all the extras that it needs to make it a GOOD conversion into the end cost, where it probably shouldn't be if you already own a decent van.

However, I think that the incidentals SHOULD be included in a ground up swap like mine (I bought the van specifically for the purpose of a swap, so it was not a well taken care of example and needed this stuff to finish out a good conversion in my opinion). I could just count the engine and its needed bits, but then I would have a pretty bad conversion that I wouldn't be very happy with. In that sense, your conversion will be much cheaper than mine :)

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:37 pm

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: TDI_VT wrote: Your right that is a great question...but I still stand by my original post minus the tank reseal (didn't know it didn't HAVE to be resealed). Most of the stuff that I posted lines up with what Andrew said: diesel bits, electronics, clutch, starter, intake and exhaust, intercooler. The trick with the intake, exahust, intercooler and electronics is that there are many solutions that can be had with varying prices....and I haven't gotten that far yet....lol.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative at all. There just seems to be a lot of folks here who appear to be hell-bent on poo-pooing this particular swap, and they use some of the astronomical figures as one point of contention. I just want to tease out truth from noise. It's all money coming out of your wallet, so it makes sense that you view the expenditures as all related. I get that.

Of course not, and I didn't take it that way at all. I see this as a good discussion and we all have some pretty valid points. And yes, I think most people get scared by the costs....when there really isn't one true 'Cost.' Everyone's is going to be different in the end.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:06 pm

I agree that it can be done much more cheaply than some seem to think. I also think you will have a better idea of the costs and effort after you have actually done it, and worked through all the gotchas. Your 82 donor parts are not going to match up all that well to this task but you should be able to get past that with some fabrication. If I were you I would spring for the new hoses right at the start rather than trying to make the inferior 82 hose/tank setup work.

Mark

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative at all. There just seems to be a lot of folks here who appear to be hell-bent on poo-pooing this particular swap, and they use some of the astronomical figures as one point of contention. I just want to tease out truth from noise. ....

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:35 pm

I'm chopping the original mounts off of the carrier bars and using either MB or Audi hyd. units, and will install a different exhaust manifold and re-clocked turbo, so I'm hoping to use the stock '82 LS engine mount--if not, I'll make my own. My free labor in this venture is a given.

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:42 pm

To get the '82 parts to work on a 2WD van, you can clearance the bracket for the trans mount and flip it around. Move the shift linkage cup the same length forward on the linkage rod. That moves the trans forward the correct amount to take care of the '82 mount position. An AAZ K03 turbo with AAZ manifold will fit without modification. If the '82 hoses are in bad shape, then by all means upgrade. If they are in good shape, then the adaptation is inexpensive and easy for someone with mild skills. I wouldn't use the '82 tank but rather the WBX tank mounted on the passenger side of the engine compartment. Use metal couplers and the leftover WBX hoses to adapt the four coolant hose ends to the radiator pipes and expansion tank. All of that can be done in less than a day. with the parts cost of a half dozen hose clamps and some hose couplers. As far as couplers are concerned I make my own from metal tubing cut to length and welded together if a change in size is needed. Then I bead the ends using my vice-grip bead tool. I actually almost prefer the '82 bars as they give much better clearance for the timing cover and timing belt changes and more easy fitment for exhaust. I am not speaking from conjecture, but from the position of having just done that on an AAZ install in an '84 using the '82 parts.

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:02 pm

Well, I guess the ball is in my court then...I can do a complete 4cyl conversion for just shy of 8k....but my whole point of the diesel path is range per tank, not really the costs associated with whats in the tank...though that is a benifit :D

Anyone in seattle with TDI van that would let me gawk at it ?