TheSamba.com :: View topic - Gas $5.00/gal. - What kind of mileage motor should one build

Wed May 30, 2012 6:33 am

I think what Dave's concern, as many would think, is that with the Aircooled VW becoming so rare that there is no real need to Create a Frankenstein out of it. Sure you did whatever it took to achieve your objective back when there were plenty to hack up.
Not being a purist or anything but why be pro-choice about hacking on good cars (and threads about them) and parts when there are so few left. If the more mature guys can write on here about hacking the remaining cars then it is basically giving posterity a permission slip to do so. Building a higher milage engine than what VW built will not only be outweighed by the cost of it but may not even get out of it's own smoke among modern cars. You know what I am saying Spencer with your 2 cylinder story (which was great and a real knee slapper).

Wed May 30, 2012 9:50 am

not really in the same vein as building a gas powered aircooled, but super mileage conversion none the less.

I happened across a Craig's list ad a couple years ago, and saved the pics to my drive. I did contact the guy, local to me, he wanted to sell, I was upfront with him and said I wanted to just wanted to get together and look and BS. Never heard back, don't blame the guy.

The engine was a Chinese diesel if I remember right, similar to this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIESEL-ENGINE-25-HP-V-TWIN...mp;vxp=mtr

Wed May 30, 2012 10:06 am

lol i like dave . dont get me wrong . daves dave. i just like messing with him . you make a point .on vws being hard to find here in the north the rust and salt end there lives fast . and lets not for get the dune buggy guys and trike guys cutting up nice vws one buggy guy cut a rust free rag top vw bug up for a rear torshion and title . and how many buses gave up there gear boxes for pipe buggy guys . i would say that where i buy my vw parts here in ohio that 85 % of the people that buy vw parts are buggy guys so in a way they are keeping the air cooled vw alive . with out the buggy guys and trike guys there would be no vw store. where i buy my parts here in ohio .around here there are still a lot of vw parts to be had for vw bugs . we are like the flat head ford guys. saying flat heads for ever . now we are saying air cooled vws for ever lol lol spencerfvee yamaducci wrote: I think what Dave's concern, as many would think, is that with the Aircooled VW becoming so rare that there is no real need to Create a Frankenstein out of it. Sure you did whatever it took to achieve your objective back when there were plenty to hack up.
Not being a purist or anything but why be pro-choice about hacking on good cars (and threads about them) and parts when there are so few left. If the more mature guys can write on here about hacking the remaining cars then it is basically giving posterity a permission slip to do so. Building a higher milage engine than what VW built will not only be outweighed by the cost of it but may not even get out of it's own smoke among modern cars. You know what I am saying Spencer with your 2 cylinder story (which was great and a real knee slapper).

Wed May 30, 2012 10:10 am

only in Cal. would you find a motor like that in a bug lol and people think i am strange lol i bet that was a real dog to drive on the street . like that two cyl motor i built . lol spencerfvee Tom Simon wrote: not really in the same vein as building a gas powered aircooled, but super mileage conversion none the less.

I happened across a Craig's list ad a couple years ago, and saved the pics to my drive. I did contact the guy, local to me, he wanted to sell, I was upfront with him and said I wanted to just wanted to get together and look and BS. Never heard back, don't blame the guy.

The engine was a Chinese diesel if I remember right, similar to this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIESEL-ENGINE-25-HP-V-TWIN...mp;vxp=mtr

Wed May 30, 2012 10:25 am

I think we're barking up the wrong tree here, the VW mileage motor is going to be about the best you can do, unless you go water cooled, after that, the bigger controller of mileage is weight and wind resistance, look at aerocivic.com the stock engine in this car gets more than double the mileage when combined with a lighter weight, less wind resistant body. And as far as i can tell, at $5 a gallon, people still won't drive a car that looks like that. LOL I have a civic like that, and a 66 beetle, the civic gets 35mpg at 80mph with the AC on, and the bug with a 1600DP/34PICT/3 gets about 30mpg with the windows down and a roof rack @ 65mph

Wed May 30, 2012 10:55 am

double post

Wed May 30, 2012 10:56 am

Tom Simon wrote: Gallons per mile?

I turned wrenches on this, below, 98% nitro bucket for a couple years, that's me on the right with my arms folded... oil/aircooled and <unfortunately> ran of 4 cylinders a good percentage of the time :roll:

sorry, I'll stop with thread jack...

Wed May 30, 2012 1:41 pm

Came across this example of an economy run:

http://www.corvair.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32&Itemid=324

Will be nice to see something similar involving aircooled vw's.

Easiest is to test cars while driving in long distance convoy... (although they should not be too close as in "slipstream" behind each other). Fill tanks before start, and then seal gas caps. Refill by the judges at the finish is easiest.

Another way that i once observed at an economy run:
Several small plastic containers (each with it's mounting hook and fuel line) were prepared by the judges. Each had a number, and each filled with a similar measured quantity of fuel. (In this case it was one liter).

This was then given to each participant, who then connected the fuel line to his fuel pump's inlet, (under the watchful eyes of the judges). (Removed line from fuel tank obviously plugged.) The temporary fuel container was then tied somewhere outside the car. Some against the air intakes or wherever.

Each car was then released at a 3 minute interval. They had to maintain a minimum 60mph speed. If arriving at the finish later than each car's calculated arrival time it would be penalized for each late second.

At the finish, each car's numbered temporary fuel tank was collected and taken to the measuring judge. He would then measure remaining fuel, and compile a list with numbers and fuel used. (At this stage he does not know which number belongs to which car, so he remains impartial).

Advantage of this system was that tests could be conducted at shorter distances.

After the economy run, a drag race was held and each participating car's time recorded.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:04 pm

hi first off HAY JOHN WHERES YOUR MPG MOTOR BUILD LOL i know john your busy this time of the year. and i understand . i am still working on my MPG motor but i am driveing my 78x 92 cheater cam mofoco 40x 35 valve heads motor i did some changes to the motor i took off the 44mm kadrons .and installed a 34 pict 3 stock carb jetting 132 main the intake is a CB alum one fully ported the stock end castings are ported . my first MPG run only got me 27 MPG city highway i then put a 1 3/8 header on.( witch realy helps low end power and boy does it pull hills now ) with a fat boy muffler and installed a 60 idle. jet and installed a auto stick dizy with 009 guts . i just got a reading on city and highway 33 MPG. i shift at 3,500 rpms i just put a fuel reg. on. set at 2 1/2 lbs i allso went to the drag strip with the kadrons my bug ran 16. 24 1/4 mile at 91 mph best time with the stock carb it ran a 17.74 at 82 mph 1/4 mile thats 1 second slower than with kadrons . but with the stock carb it runs so much better on the street. i can go as low 20mph in forth gear and the bug can run on the free way at 65 mph to 90 mph if i want to . it has all the passing power i need. and is more of a fun car to drive now . with the fuel reg. on now. it runs even better i am hopeing for 38 mpg when i take a trip and will be on the high way only ( on the high way i run about 60 to 65 MPH . i allso am going to install a 5 lbs stock pulley .to see if that helps. mpg .the thing that surprizes me the most is that a big motor with big valves dose so well on MPG . and how well a small 1/38 header does spencerfvee................. spencerfvee wrote: lol i like dave . dont get me wrong . daves dave. i just like messing with him . you make a point .on vws being hard to find here in the north the rust and salt end there lives fast . and lets not for get the dune buggy guys and trike guys cutting up nice vws one buggy guy cut a rust free rag top vw bug up for a rear torshion and title . and how many buses gave up there gear boxes for pipe buggy guys . i would say that where i buy my vw parts here in ohio that 85 % of the people that buy vw parts are buggy guys so in a way they are keeping the air cooled vw alive . with out the buggy guys and trike guys there would be no vw store. where i buy my parts here in ohio .around here there are still a lot of vw parts to be had for vw bugs . we are like the flat head ford guys. saying flat heads for ever . now we are saying air cooled vws for ever lol lol spencerfvee yamaducci wrote: I think what Dave's concern, as many would think, is that with the Aircooled VW becoming so rare that there is no real need to Create a Frankenstein out of it. Sure you did whatever it took to achieve your objective back when there were plenty to hack up.
Not being a purist or anything but why be pro-choice about hacking on good cars (and threads about them) and parts when there are so few left. If the more mature guys can write on here about hacking the remaining cars then it is basically giving posterity a permission slip to do so. Building a higher milage engine than what VW built will not only be outweighed by the cost of it but may not even get out of it's own smoke among modern cars. You know what I am saying Spencer with your 2 cylinder story (which was great and a real knee slapper).

Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:57 pm

frankinstine vw?? hmm funny. my 2332 has 1 vw part.as does my hyd roller motor,my 2028 atleast has 3 vw parts(2 case halvs&the other part that the other two have) so what is a franken -V-weenie motor??? I would thing with a super case and some $$$ you could make a diesel with good electronic fuell management & a good set of pistons.power, torque&mpg. or a 14:1 cr gass motor, but it might need some head/cylinder cooling help, but might not.but then you have spent all the dollars saved +++ a lot more........and the problem is.........??if you have the $$$ no problem.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:11 pm

Spencerfvee,

http://www.aircooled.net/vw-type-1-mileage-engine-mpg/

you replied to it back in April!!!!!

Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:38 am

I woud like to hear some predictions. I have:
1904cc
Los Panchitos Heads
Engle W110
ACN SVDA
I had a progessive carb that ran well, but I was a little rich on idle side because I didn't have intake heat. I was averaging 30-32mpg.

My question is I am putting dual weber 40's on it jetted by ACN. I am also going from a 1 5/8" header to 1 1/2". What kind of mileage should I expect? I'm guessing 24ish?

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:28 am

jtwaller wrote: I woud like to hear some predictions. I have:
1904cc
Los Panchitos Heads
Engle W110
ACN SVDA
I had a progessive carb that ran well, but I was a little rich on idle side because I didn't have intake heat. I was averaging 30-32mpg.

My question is I am putting dual weber 40's on it jetted by ACN. I am also going from a 1 5/8" header to 1 1/2". What kind of mileage should I expect? I'm guessing 24ish?

I if i understand right , you had a progressive and am now moving to twin 40's, if you dont floor it all the time you should get better mpg's than before, I would want 35MPG+ cruise at 60mph on the freeway out of that combo

Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:54 am

krusher wrote: jtwaller wrote: I woud like to hear some predictions. I have:
1904cc
Los Panchitos Heads
Engle W110
ACN SVDA
I had a progessive carb that ran well, but I was a little rich on idle side because I didn't have intake heat. I was averaging 30-32mpg.

My question is I am putting dual weber 40's on it jetted by ACN. I am also going from a 1 5/8" header to 1 1/2". What kind of mileage should I expect? I'm guessing 24ish?

I if i understand right , you had a progressive and am now moving to twin 40's, if you dont floor it all the time you should get better mpg's than before, I would want 35MPG+ cruise at 60mph on the freeway out of that combo

Wow. I was thinking more ports, more fuel, more air, less mpgs. If I get anywhere near the same that would be awesome! Can't say I won't keep my foot out of it at first. Can't wait to see my engine wake up. Currently going through a rebuild, should be back on the road by next weekend! :twisted:

Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:02 pm

I agree with Krusher. You should improve your MPG's if you keep your foot out of it.

When I ever get around to my MPG motor my goal will be 60mpg, @ 60mph, and able to make over 60hp. I think I can do it, or come real close to it. I just honestly need to sell my drag car to make it happen. I don't seem to have enough resources to make it all happen. :(

Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:47 pm

Eaallred wrote: I agree with Krusher. You should improve your MPG's if you keep your foot out of it.

When I ever get around to my MPG motor my goal will be 60mpg, @ 60mph, and able to make over 60hp. I think I can do it, or come real close to it. I just honestly need to sell my drag car to make it happen. I don't seem to have enough resources to make it all happen. :(

hey Eric, 60mpg at 60mph cruising speeds? That's one awesome goal!

I have been seriously kicking around an idea for an acvw MPG engine myself. I'll send you a PM

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:08 pm

we are kinda cheating up here, at elevation our wind resistance is lower than you guys at sea level, so it makes MPG #s look better.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:29 pm

[email protected] wrote: we are kinda cheating up here, at elevation our wind resistance is lower than you guys at sea level, so it makes MPG #s look better.

Maybe, but the more significant advantage is the quality of gasoline... in California they serve up this 'boutique blend' the industry calls it, with octane boosted with higher percentages of ethanol. Fisrt they took away even the tiny amounts of Tetra-ethyl lead, replacing it with MTBE. Then had to re-tool the refineries again, to get rid of the MTBE and use ethanol (I think that;s how the story goes..). I routinely get a documented 5-8% better FE using the better Nevada and Arizona gas (when I drive through) Utah likely has the same 'good stuff'.

Still, adjusted for fuel, a 60/60 acvw would be outstanding! You guys need to build that thing! I'd loan you my Fish carburetor to put on that thing, but when you stop to fill your tank, the gas pump would run backward! Ha!

Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:09 pm

talk about bad gas .here in ohio the state never checks the gas for quality to see if its good . while other states around ohio do check there gas for quality . other states dump there old out dated gas in ohio . one time i was pumping gas into my bug and the smell of the gas i was pumping was like the smell of some thing that died in there gas tank . lol after filling my tank .my bug ran like crap i had to drain my gas tank . that was a waist of $40.00 spencerfvee Tom Simon wrote: [email protected] wrote: we are kinda cheating up here, at elevation our wind resistance is lower than you guys at sea level, so it makes MPG #s look better.

Maybe, but the more significant advantage is the quality of gasoline... in California they serve up this 'boutique blend' the industry calls it, with octane boosted with higher percentages of ethanol. Fisrt they took away even the tiny amounts of Tetra-ethyl lead, replacing it with MTBE. Then had to re-tool the refineries again, to get rid of the MTBE and use ethanol (I think that;s how the story goes..). I routinely get a documented 5-8% better FE using the better Nevada and Arizona gas (when I drive through) Utah likely has the same 'good stuff'.

Still, adjusted for fuel, a 60/60 acvw would be outstanding! You guys need to build that thing! I'd loan you my Fish carburetor to put on that thing, but when you stop to fill your tank, the gas pump would run backward! Ha!

Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:34 pm

Tom,

what you say is right, but they are not related to one another. I was simply pointing out that it is easier to get good MPG #s at elevation as opposed to sea level.

Gasoline is a separate topic, though it also affects MPG.