TheSamba.com :: View topic - Gas $5.00/gal. - What kind of mileage motor should one build

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:50 am

hi eaallred i like your chart on gearing . great job here in ohio we are going to get are 70MPH speed limit back . there voting on it now. are turn pike is 70 mph love it spencerfve quote="Eaallred"]Gearing is VERY key.

Anyone wonder why my figure was at 70mph and not 65mph which is the legal speed limit here in Salt Lake City?

70mph was 3600rpm with my car when I did my big mileage run, take a look at why I picked that rpm to cruise at:

The two red areas are my most efficient areas. The lower one is peak torque, the upper one is peak rpm. I cruised at my peak torque rpm to maximize my mileage.

Granted, I did get better mileage at 65 than 70, and even better still at 60 (datalogging showed 50mpg @ 60mph), but 70 was right before mileage dropped off (think bell shaped curve) so that is where I did the real world testing with the GPS to back it up.

Getting good MPG figures at 70mph is so much more awesome than 60mph since it's a much more realistic modern-day freeway speed in comparison.[/quote]

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:53 am

oh my you guys pay $9.40 a gal. i will never bitch about high gas cost here in the USA spencerfvee dalland wrote: andy198712 wrote: ha..........ha............ha....

you dont know how lucky you are!!!

in the uk petrol is $2.05 a LITRE!!!!

pfff, that is cheap, we pay 2.5$ per liter, for the us guys that is about 9.4$ per gallon. and than it is around 600$ in yearly tax and then again around 1200$ in road tax (driving into a city), and to top it off our roads are shit compared to us roads, and we drive our cars all year round inn snow and no problem driving 12 hours to happenings (SCC) etc.

I am not complaining so why are the US guys complaining?

Oh, this was a thread about mpg, my last engine:
1600cc
1.25 rockers
40 hpmx
trimil exhaust
ported heads
40mpg

The one most important thing: Lambda! :wink:

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:55 am

Mileage contest. Real world...maybe run that in different climate conditions. Run at 6500 feet like where I am at up and down mountian grades not just out in the FLAT DESERT below 100 feet elevations. After all not all of us live in that ideal engine driving enviroment. I would love to be a tester.

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:00 am

has any one done any testing on useing avery small turbo . on a vw MPG motor. i see on tv where ford is useing a turbo on ther V 6 trucks for better MPG and power some thing to think about . spencerfvee ...................................... spencerfvee wrote: i know every ones seen gas going up this week . i read on yahoo news today that gas is over $5.00 gal in some parts of Cal. here in ohio gas is now $3.70 gal. i dont know about every one else but its made me rethink . about building a MPG motor . i am sure others might be thinking about doing the same thing i allso am sure that your going to see more fourms on thesamba on building a MPG motor .i am sure theres guys with lots of money that dont care what kind of MPG there VW gets lol. i would like to know what what year vw would be best to put a MPG motor in . what would be the best VW transmission to use with a MPG motor .and best tire size to use with a MPG . and what would be the best MPG motor to build maybe a 1200cc motor 1300cc motor 1500cc motor or1600cc motor or a bigger cc motor. my self i am thinking about building a 1300cc motor with a 34 pict carb single port heads a 1968 auto stick dizy with 009 bosch dizy parts . a 1 3/8 header. CB cheater cam . spencerfvee

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:53 am

I think the addition of a turbo is a compromise to get more power. Take the turbo off, and install a proper exhaust system, and the engines would get even better mileage. But be gutless. Something americans won't stand for.

If MPG is your goal, i'd leave the turbo out IMHO.

I remember John C offering a challenge back when Squishies were getting scrutinzed by the SoCal gangs. Everyone gets a set amount of gasoline at a gas station "100" miles away from the Vegas drag strip. You have to drive the speed limit the whole way to the track, and make three passes, without filling up. Fastest time vs. how much fuel left over dictated the winner. Run out of gas, or go too slow down the highway, and you're DQ'd.

NOBODY offered to take him up on it. They would have been pissed to have been beaten by a low 12 (maybe high 11) second street car (John's) from Utah, lol.

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:56 am

Give me 2 years (i'm on a financial speed bump right now), and i'll have a maximum MPG engine built for my car.

Maybe i'm optimistic, but my goal is going to be 60mpg @ 65mph. I know I can clear 50, but 60 will be tough. But whats the point if you don't set goals high, right?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:59 am

spencervee,

What would be a good sliding scale for this challenge?

MPG over a specified drive, vs. peak HP and TQ on a chassis dyno?

Half point per HP, point per MPG? Most points wins? Must complete 100 mile drive to chassis dyno at freeway speeds (65mph?), 40mpg minimum or DQ'd.

This could be a LOT of fun. I'm more interested in something like this than drag racing these days. Maybe i'm just getting old....

Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:48 am

spencerfvee wrote: hi UK luke . i talked to some of the guys in johns shop and they say hes like that till he gets his coffee. then hes ok . lol whats it like driveing in tunnel knowing there tons of water over your head when you drive to germany ?spencerfvee UK Luke 72 wrote: [email protected] wrote: 100mi/day commutes are "Choice" too. But by your argument what are you bitching about, if you don't like the price of gas in the UK move somewhere else. Or ride your bike, right? Your choice?

Woah hold on John, I'm not the one bitching! I appreciate you guys are generally a lot more spaced out than we are but then we have the continent for some awesome shows should we choose to drive to Germany for a weekend.

Yeah the UK is expensive but then our average pay packet reflects that (IMO)

the chunnel is boring, it goes from england to france, and you don't drive in it, you drive your car on to a train the train drives across and you drive off the train at the other side, you have no idea your even in a tunnel there are no windows. :cry:

Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:51 am

spencerfvee wrote: has any one done any testing on useing avery small turbo . on a vw MPG motor.
Did you check my 1200 EFI-turbo build?
Thats exactly part of the goal. The other goal is to win the 1200 dyno contest 8)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:22 pm

what would be fun is to have the crew start and all pull a fuel line and run the pump til it's dry. Put the fuel in a tank marked for them after it's over.

Everyone gets a gallon of fuel and goes on a cruise together; 60mph for everyone. Each time someone pulls over they get laughed at. The Sag Wagon then gives them their fuel back to resume. Go until the last guy needs a re-fueling, then drive straight to the burger joint or back to the show.

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:33 pm

john thats a super good thought . that would be the only fair way to do it . and yes it would be a lot of fun . john would there be classes for dune buggies and trikes or would it be run what you brung kind of thing .as long as its a air cooled vw motor .spencerfvee [email protected] wrote: what would be fun is to have the crew start and all pull a fuel line and run the pump til it's dry. Put the fuel in a tank marked for them after it's over.

Everyone gets a gallon of fuel and goes on a cruise together; 60mph for everyone. Each time someone pulls over they get laughed at. The Sag Wagon then gives them their fuel back to resume. Go until the last guy needs a re-fueling, then drive straight to the burger joint or back to the show.

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:39 pm

hi krusher see i learn something new every day .thanks for telling me . a train is the best way. that would do away with all the fumes from the cars . spencerfvee krusher wrote: spencerfvee wrote: hi UK luke . i talked to some of the guys in johns shop and they say hes like that till he gets his coffee. then hes ok . lol whats it like driveing in tunnel knowing there tons of water over your head when you drive to germany ?spencerfvee UK Luke 72 wrote: [email protected] wrote: 100mi/day commutes are "Choice" too. But by your argument what are you bitching about, if you don't like the price of gas in the UK move somewhere else. Or ride your bike, right? Your choice?

Woah hold on John, I'm not the one bitching! I appreciate you guys are generally a lot more spaced out than we are but then we have the continent for some awesome shows should we choose to drive to Germany for a weekend.

Yeah the UK is expensive but then our average pay packet reflects that (IMO)

the chunnel is boring, it goes from england to france, and you don't drive in it, you drive your car on to a train the train drives across and you drive off the train at the other side, you have no idea your even in a tunnel there are no windows. :cry:

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:56 pm

hi beetspeed good luck on your dyno contest . the only reason i thought about adding a turbo for MPG. was i saw a sky G test motor that mazda was working on it was a 1300cc motor ran on gas with a turbo . they used the turbo to get up to speed on free ways and to pass other cars then the motor once up to speed would get good MPG. thats all i know about it . i allso have been rethinking a MPG motor the 40 hp motor has a small oil pump that frees up HP it allso has a smaller cooling fan that frees up HP over a bigger fan in a 1600cc motor . it has small bore and 64mm crank .allso one could use a 3 1/2 QT deep sump and keep all the oil out of the case and in the sump that would free up HP if the formula vee guys can get 60HP out of a 40 hp motor with stock parts . if one has no rules on cams and head work i think one could pull 75hpor more HP out of a 40HP motor useing 1300cc heads and useing a bigger stock 1970 intake manifold and useing a 30 pict carb might get better MPG . just something to think about spencerfvee Beetspeed wrote: spencerfvee wrote: has any one done any testing on useing avery small turbo . on a vw MPG motor.
Did you check my 1200 EFI-turbo build?
Thats exactly part of the goal. The other goal is to win the 1200 dyno contest 8)

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:03 pm

my friend we all have dreams and goals in our life . if i cant dream about doing some thing. then life would not be worth liveing. good luck i am sure you will do it spencerfvee.................... Eaallred wrote: Give me 2 years (i'm on a financial speed bump right now), and i'll have a maximum MPG engine built for my car.

Maybe i'm optimistic, but my goal is going to be 60mpg @ 65mph. I know I can clear 50, but 60 will be tough. But whats the point if you don't set goals high, right?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:08 pm

hi all the points you made below sounds good to me . dawie from africa started this whole thing. lets see what he thinks the rules should be spencerfvee Eaallred wrote: spencervee,

What would be a good sliding scale for this challenge?

MPG over a specified drive, vs. peak HP and TQ on a chassis dyno?

Half point per HP, point per MPG? Most points wins? Must complete 100 mile drive to chassis dyno at freeway speeds (65mph?), 40mpg minimum or DQ'd.

This could be a LOT of fun. I'm more interested in something like this than drag racing these days. Maybe i'm just getting old....

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:09 pm

The fun thing would be that EVERYONE runs out of gas, and it's in view of everyone so there's less chance of cheating.

I'd do it at 60mph since most can agree on that. Yes it's true some can go 70mph, but not all cars can cruise at that. It's also true cars will get better MPG at 45mph, but everyone is going the same. The sooner everyone runs out of gas the sooner you get to eat!

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:31 pm

I like the idea of people focusing on mpg. I am not some eco person, I just live in the real world and not on a drag strip. I only drive 500 miles per month at the most so fuel economy really isn't a big deal, it would be great to see the innovations people come up with and the recipes to their success. I don't have the knowledge base or tools to do alot of this stuff but am interested in learning more from everyones experiences. What's funny is the only time in the last 15 years that I bought Hotvw's magazine was during the mpg motor they made, it was fun to read their expiriment.

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:03 pm

John, I am really interested in your squishy pistons, are there any threads or detailed info from you on tuning with your parts? I know there are no pics but would love some data or info to see if I should sell a car to buy some.

From what Ive read (between back and fourth posts between people that have and have not used them) is that the squishies need the following tune

.040 deck height with stock chambers
112 lobe centers with 4-8* retarded timing
12* at idle and 24* full advance

From what I understand due to the "swirl" or higher turbulence effect of the dome eliminating lean areas of the charge, you can run lower jet sizes and leaner mixtures at higher compression (11-12:1) using pump gas with lower possibility of detonation.

Are there any other "mandatory" build settings that need to be taken into account when building a squishy engine? Can you even use an SVDA on a build of this type?

thanks

Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:49 pm

hi yeoldeluke when i first posted this post on MPG i realy thought no one would respond and i thought no one would care about getting better MPG . i was wrong . i know its got me thinking on getting better MPG out of my bug . i am hopeing more people will post on what kind of MPG motor they would build i like what you said your right on spencerfvee yeoldeluke wrote: I like the idea of people focusing on mpg. I am not some eco person, I just live in the real world and not on a drag strip. I only drive 500 miles per month at the most so fuel economy really isn't a big deal, it would be great to see the innovations people come up with and the recipes to their success. I don't have the knowledge base or tools to do alot of this stuff but am interested in learning more from everyones experiences. What's funny is the only time in the last 15 years that I bought Hotvw's magazine was during the mpg motor they made, it was fun to read their expiriment.

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:12 pm

I like the direction Hot VWs took with their 1745 (85.5 x 76) mileage motor, i.e., a smallish stroker with dual carbs. Years ago, I had a 1967 (92 x 74) with a W110 cam and ported and polished stock heads in my 65 ghia that got 35 mpg highway despite having dual Weber 44 IDFs, a 4.375 ring and pinion, and a 009 distributor. I think I could have easily gotten over 40 mpg highway with a milder cam (W100 or CB 2280 "cheater" cam), dual 40 IDFs or 36 DRLAs, a 3.875 ring and pinion, and a vacuum advance distributor.