TheSamba.com :: View topic - All About my Raby Suby--74 Westy to Jake

Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:50 pm

Jake Raby wrote: dawerks wrote: You converted me! I was set to have a grand adventure in a 912 powered Double Cab, but it let me down. Maybe I let it down, but the engine popped a coil and it stopped. End of adventure. BORING.

Come to think of it, ACVW engines have stranded more than a few times. Not only that, I always have to think twice about diving them. They always need some messing about. It's fun to be covered in oil and gas right before I drop off my daughter in the bus. NOT. (Which I can only drive about 3 months of the year, yaaah, $25K bus that gets 3 months of use!)

Done with it, I'm going Subaru power myself. I hope and PRAY the technology from Raby trickles down to guys like me. :)

What you mention is what inspired me to develop this program.

A part of me wants to sell individual parts and kits, the other part of me knows the BS that comes with that and wants to avoid it completely by only offering turnkey solutions.

offer turnkey, and a kit that comes without the block/motor and then someone can build their own motor. just have them sign an agreement that you are not responsible for any mistakes they make with the FULL kit. then, you can restrict buying certain pieces to people who have already bought a kit.

or not....:P

Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 am

Jake Raby wrote: Sneak peek... This is a final mock up now that the engine is complete to "JR25 Touring Special" specs. Lots more pics when I get the chance to post them. Its ready to get pulled out and thrown on the chassis dyno.

Not your typical messy conversion~

That looks just, well, perfect in there, doesn't it!

Great work, Jake! =D>

Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:46 am

Stuartzickefoose wrote: Jake Raby wrote: dawerks wrote: You converted me! I was set to have a grand adventure in a 912 powered Double Cab, but it let me down. Maybe I let it down, but the engine popped a coil and it stopped. End of adventure. BORING.

Come to think of it, ACVW engines have stranded more than a few times. Not only that, I always have to think twice about diving them. They always need some messing about. It's fun to be covered in oil and gas right before I drop off my daughter in the bus. NOT. (Which I can only drive about 3 months of the year, yaaah, $25K bus that gets 3 months of use!)

Done with it, I'm going Subaru power myself. I hope and PRAY the technology from Raby trickles down to guys like me. :)

What you mention is what inspired me to develop this program.

A part of me wants to sell individual parts and kits, the other part of me knows the BS that comes with that and wants to avoid it completely by only offering turnkey solutions.

offer turnkey, and a kit that comes without the block/motor and then someone can build their own motor. just have them sign an agreement that you are not responsible for any mistakes they make with the FULL kit. then, you can restrict buying certain pieces to people who have already bought a kit.

or not....:P

totally in agreement. I would like to be able to buy say, a pre-made engine to bus body mount and an exhaust that fits and flows correctly. both of these pieces I CAN make, but I know you can make them BETTER. since you have access to a dyno and other testing equipment I don't have.

That said, my thread will prove you don't need this stuff to "trickle down" -- if you're a good mechanic/fabricator you should already have all the skills you need to do this (though I understand many would rather skip the wiring part) and my thread will prove that this kind of conversion can have nearly the same results as Jake, look and perform well, and do it on a budget.

Thats not at all a knock on Jake -- he's going down the road not traveled by most of us, since he has tools and equipment for testing and fabricating that most of us don't have access to. His kits will be calibrated specifically for this application. thats a feat that should not go understated -- but is it critically necessary? No. the proof is in the pudding -- a straight swap without all the bells and whistles works, works well, and isn't all that hard to do. look at all the cars that manage to do it.

Jake -- I really REALLY hope you help out the hobby, and not just the people with deep enough pockets, by selling some of the kits critical components separately for the home brew conversion. If you want me to sign away my "right" to sue you into oblivion by all means show me the paper work. I don't have the time or energy or money to go around ambulance chasing.

Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:06 am

it looks very 'at home' in there. nice to see the line-x professionally applied. usually that look is just OK at first, and then turns to crap because it wasn't done thick enough and without the proper prep first.

Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:16 am

I saw this article this morning and couldn't help but share... this is the kind of robustness our busses need!

http://jalopnik.com/5915955/this-subaru-started-af...ree-months

Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:39 am

airkooledchris wrote:

it looks very 'at home' in there. nice to see the line-x professionally applied. usually that look is just OK at first, and then turns to crap because it wasn't done thick enough and without the proper prep first.

From that angle it definitely does look 'at home'.

I wonder if anything is done to modify the low hanging fruit I see at the bottom of a stock Subie motor, - mainly the oil pan -

- Andrew in Austin, TX -

Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:37 am

aryue wrote: airkooledchris wrote:

it looks very 'at home' in there. nice to see the line-x professionally applied. usually that look is just OK at first, and then turns to crap because it wasn't done thick enough and without the proper prep first.

From that angle it definitely does look 'at home'.

I wonder if anything is done to modify the low hanging fruit I see at the bottom of a stock Subie motor, - mainly the oil pan -

- Andrew in Austin, TX -

there are bolt on shortened oil sumps from at least 3 different manufacturers in the US, UK, and Aus.

Do you really think people take the time to do a conversion this involved and then "forget" about something as obvious as a foot deep oil sump? :roll: :lol:

Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:42 am

As for offering "kits"... I am being a little selfish these days because the scars of battle over the past 15 years have taught me a lesson concerning what to offer and who to offer it to.

This program is new and due to this I am being very particular about what we are offering and how, because it is at the critical stage where selling the wrong person the wrong thing leads to half ass installs or things that break because they lack the design thats required.

Time will tell, but I AM NOT going to makes the same mistakes with these engines that I did with my Type 4 conversions and parts. Like I said, its time to be a little selfish and be concerned with my company and where it is going over the next 30 years. I am much more of a developer than a seller and to be honest all I care about is making it work the best it can. Sales find me, just like this one did... Ken called me. The same with the build that we have slotted for creation after his and the same with the one after that.

The key to getting more Suby conversions done is to offer bolt on solutions to the common problems and challenges, but unfortunately thats not what I care about doing at the present. I am just fine "Making it all happen" and I much prefer "doing it" rather than "selling it".

We have made a little more headway with Ken's project as we now have 5 speeds and the most positive shifter action I have ever seen!

The front tranny mount is also completed and we have samples of each unit already made for replication and bolt on future use.

And what we have here is a total overkill, custom internally dampened universal joint that will kill the vibrations being transmitted through the shift rod into the cabin.

The rear engine hangar is being fabricated today.

Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:21 am

Rock on Jake! I'll be in line as soon as I can...

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:21 pm

Jim Bear wrote: Rock on Jake! I'll be in line as soon as I can...
Ready when you are.

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:54 pm

Nice project and still a lot to think about i can tell you.

Where did you get that nice oilfill pipe from?
the inlet manifold could you turn it? Or is it a special design?

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:42 pm

The oil filler is one of our products.. Originally found on our Type 4 DTM cooling systems.. A little cross pollination has occurred here..

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:52 pm

Nice work Jake, coming from a previous Subaru owner and enthusiast I like.

Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:17 am

Damn, this conversion would be great in my '68 Single Cab. The stock 1600cc Type I just lacks the power and low end torque that I'm going to ask of it in future use....lots to think about.

Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:37 am

The main consideration when thinking about what to do should be emissions compliance. The engine that is depicted here would be 49 state compliant as long as the state allows vehicle engine conversions. The future holds changes for everyone and emissions compliance is one reason I started this program.

I love air-cooled engines, but the air-cooled VW industry has been committing suicide since the days of Johnny's Speed and Chrome. Today with everything being of questionable quality the Suby engine is the best choice for those wanting more than a mild engine producing less than 100HP.

The difference between building an ACVW engine and this Suby is unreal. When we buy parts for the Suby a truck arrives from our closest dealership and delivers OEM components with great quality at affordable cost. When we order ACVW parts a part arrives that would never meet OEM specifications for quality and it comes blister packed from some reseller that cares nothing about the hobby and has gone offshore to have the parts made so he can stimulate his wallet.

As the ACVW parts get harder to source, become even lesser quality and as a different breed of owner fills our ranks who wants creature comforts and a modern engine design the Suby conversion will be more widely accepted and applied. I intend to be on the forefront of that movement.

Now, if i was smart back in 1994 when I did my first Suby swap into a sand rail I would have started developing the conversion pieces instead of working with the ACVW Type 4 conversion. I let my heart lead me and I have really enjoyed the ride and the feeling of pride that the past 18 years have given me... But if I had it to do all over again I wouldn't do it the same way.

Hell I had an Ej25 DOHC engine sitting in my storage area from 1997 until 2008 when I hauled it off to the scrap yard when cleaning up to build my new shop... I didn't have time to do the conversion of it into my Ghia but with hindsight being 20/20 I can now see how much I hurt my self.

ACVW engines are what I love... Unfortunately that love doesn't have 30 more years of longevity left in it with the industry committing suicide.

Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:25 am

So Jake. Do you think in 30 years the Subaru engine will have better support than a Type 1 VW? I understand that a Type 1 does not meet the modern definition of performance and comfort and will only continue to fall farther behind in that respect but as far as being able to find parts and support in the future I would be worried 30 years from now finding an oil pump for the Subaru would be harder than finding an oil pump for the VW Type 1. Doesn't the VW Type 1 have a better chance of retaining a following given its place in automotive history?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:52 am

spiggs wrote: So Jake. Do you think in 30 years the Subaru engine will have better support than a Type 1 VW? I understand that a Type 1 does not meet the modern definition of performance and comfort and will only continue to fall farther behind in that respect but as far as being able to find parts and support in the future I would be worried 30 years from now finding an oil pump for the Subaru would be harder than finding an oil pump for the VW Type 1. Doesn't the VW Type 1 have a better chance of retaining a following given its place in automotive history?

Well said. The air-cooled VW engine is one of the most produced engines in history, not so for the subie. The influx of crap parts could be reversed if consumers would do their homework, pony up the dough, and buy only the good stuff, as in Jake's products. As with any organization, government, or whatever, those that rule don't really rule; it's the people that have the power. All they have to do is change their habits.

Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:18 am

Today a Suby engine is basically the same as it was in 1994 and millions have also been produced.. When the VW was the king of the road there were a lot less vehicle manufacturers than there are today.

In Asia the Suby is everywhere and truck loads of engines are exported to the US routinely.

In 30 years the Suby engine will be as old as the VW engine is today..

The suby engine isn't for everyone in the ACVW community an that's why our AirCooled engine program has been retained and continues to grow. Some vehicles are compromised by the suby and others are enhanced- having a bolt in option is the key and what we offer.

Hell, our AirCooled backlog is heavier than ever, standing at 11 months currently. What has diminished greatly is quality component supply that meets our standards- just this week we dropped a supplier we have had for 16 years due to their components continually not meeting our standards over the last 6 months. It will only get worse over time.

Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:00 pm

tootype2crazy wrote: spiggs wrote: So Jake. Do you think in 30 years the Subaru engine will have better support than a Type 1 VW? I understand that a Type 1 does not meet the modern definition of performance and comfort and will only continue to fall farther behind in that respect but as far as being able to find parts and support in the future I would be worried 30 years from now finding an oil pump for the Subaru would be harder than finding an oil pump for the VW Type 1. Doesn't the VW Type 1 have a better chance of retaining a following given its place in automotive history?

Well said. The air-cooled VW engine is one of the most produced engines in history, not so for the subie. The influx of crap parts could be reversed if consumers would do their homework, pony up the dough, and buy only the good stuff, as in Jake's products. As with any organization, government, or whatever, those that rule don't really rule; it's the people that have the power. All they have to do is change their habits.

The beetle sold 20 million worldwide in it's lifetime. You can add Kombi sales to that as well to get a fairly large number.

Subaru have already sold over 10 million cars worldwide. I see they are selling 30,000 cars a month in the USA alone on Subaru's latest press release. Strong numbers indeed.

Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:45 pm

Todd, that's the numbers that needed to be posted. Keep in mind that the engine is no where near the end of it's application at Subaru.

Suby crankcases can be bought brand new today for engines that were built in 1994 and from the dealership. You can have one in your hands in 3 days for less than the cost of a Brazilian replacement type 1 case that more than likely will need every dimension corrected before assembly.

And the dealership delivers it to your door for free...