TheSamba.com :: View topic - **Update-FIXED**Just died? then started after 20

Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:58 pm

3 month old Electric fuel pump on a single Weber .1975 bay.

When teaching my son stick shift the bus died and would not re-start. The bus turned over tried to stay running but no go. I checked the filter and it is new a clean I checked the pump and very hot. We waited about 20 min and it stared and we drove home with no problem.

Any ideas on what it could have been?

Thanks Gerry

Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:16 pm

Fuel starvation or pump is starting to go.

What type of pump? A pic would help.

Jeff

Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:31 pm

It's a carter. electric and only 3 months old. I re bolted it tighter could it have been a loose ground?

Gerry

Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:15 pm

Drove it today no problems..
Would like to know what it could be kind of wierd.

Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:08 pm

any ideas???

Thanks

Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:14 pm

More information about your installation would get you more responses, particularly pictures of your pump as installed.

Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:28 am

Wildthings wrote: More information about your installation would get you more responses, particularly pictures of your pump as installed.

Ok Thanks
Will try to get some pics soon. after my work week 8)

Gerry

Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:34 pm

Running and starting fine now. but unsure of what it could of been?

Thanks

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:19 pm

Last time it did it to me, as in bus died for no apparent reason, then having to go through the usual roadside fault finding procedure was in October 2011. It was the condensor on the distributor, which after about 20 minutes decided on its own that it was OK again. I have replaced it with a Beru condensor, but it was another nail in the coffin for conventional ignition for me, I'm going to swap over to electronic ignition sometime this year. Your loose ground theory sounds very plausible.

No harm in checking and giving a service to all your ignition connections and wires, your distributor cap, rotor arm, points, plugs, condensor, coil etc.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:40 pm

chimneyfish wrote: ... It was the condensor on the distributor, which after about 20 minutes decided on its own that it was OK again. ... I'm going to swap over to electronic ignition sometime this year. ...

Your problem might have been a bad connection rather than a bad condenser. Condensers do not heal themselves within or after twenty minutes. If you do switch to electronic, carry points and condenser in your spare parts.

Aloha
tp

Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:13 pm

Thanks Tom. In that 20 minutes I had pushed on every connection going, but at least I feel better with a Beru than the non-descript replacement condensor I was running. As you rightly say, even if electronic, carry spare points and condensor, and a static timing light. (sorry, don't want to hijack thread) but does anyone know of there is any fact in the rumours that if you have Pertronix ignition fitted, that if you leave your key in the ignition with the ignition on but engine off, that the Pertronix unit will burn out and fail after a minute or two? Or is that just a myth? I read it somewhere on here, which gives me some trepidation to the electronic system.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:04 pm

chimneyfish wrote: ... but does anyone know of there is any fact in the rumours that if you have Pertronix ignition fitted, that if you leave your key in the ignition with the ignition on but engine off, that the Pertronix unit will burn out and fail after a minute or two? Or is that just a myth? I read it somewhere on here, which gives me some trepidation to the electronic system.

I've also read that many times. It can also happen with points and condenser ignition if the points are ... My solution is two distributors. One is on the engine and the other one has new points and condenser and has been tested on the engine. I have a punch mark on the engine case to swap in a distributor without a timing light. Possibly there is a bit of difference in the distributors that requires a timing light, but the punch mark can get me going again on a cold dark road. I recently went to Aeromech for my 300,000 mile maintenance check and his timing was a bit different from my punch mark and there was some improvement in engine performance from the timing I had set.

Aloha
tp

Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:09 pm

Tom Powell wrote: chimneyfish wrote: ... but does anyone know of there is any fact in the rumours that if you have Pertronix ignition fitted, that if you leave your key in the ignition with the ignition on but engine off, that the Pertronix unit will burn out and fail after a minute or two? Or is that just a myth? I read it somewhere on here, which gives me some trepidation to the electronic system.

I've also read that many times. It can also happen with points and condenser ignition if the points are ... My solution is two distributors. One is on the engine and the other one has new points and condenser and has been tested on the engine. I have a punch mark on the engine case to swap in a distributor without a timing light. Possibly there is a bit of difference in the distributors that requires a timing light, but the punch mark can get me going again on a cold dark road. I recently went to Aeromech for my 300,000 mile maintenance check and his timing was a bit different from my punch mark and there was some improvement in engine performance from the timing I had set.

Aloha
tp Get a second clamp, time your spare, take it off clamp and all.

Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:43 pm

was the intake manifold cold to the touch? that single carb can ice up the manifold very easily....try driving for like 10 mins from cold and see if the manifold gets cooler to the touch...if it iced up, it would keep the fuel from being a mist, and make it into drops, with will flood the engine basically, and after about 20 mins, it would warm up enough to start.

maybe?

busdaddy?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:51 am

Stuartzickefoose wrote: was the intake manifold cold to the touch? that single carb can ice up the manifold very easily....try driving for like 10 mins from cold and see if the manifold gets cooler to the touch...if it iced up, it would keep the fuel from being a mist, and make it into drops, with will flood the engine basically, and after about 20 mins, it would warm up enough to start.

maybe?

busdaddy?

Yep could have been carb ice if the temp and dew points were close. Also I had a coil years ago that would heat up and fail so I would have to let it cool down to work again. Anything past 20 mins of running it would fail.

Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:45 am

1975 Kombi wrote: Stuartzickefoose wrote: was the intake manifold cold to the touch? that single carb can ice up the manifold very easily....try driving for like 10 mins from cold and see if the manifold gets cooler to the touch...if it iced up, it would keep the fuel from being a mist, and make it into drops, with will flood the engine basically, and after about 20 mins, it would warm up enough to start.

maybe?

busdaddy?

Yep could have been carb ice if the temp and dew points were close. Also I had a coil years ago that would heat up and fail so I would have to let it cool down to work again. Anything past 20 mins of running it would fail.

Great suggestions but in my case it was one of the warmest days I have driven around 82 degrees and I was in a parking lot teaching my son stick shift. The other thing is driving in the parking lot I was getting very little air flow only traveling around 5 mph. For us here in Arizona it was a winter day. :?

Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:09 am

Hi, if your pump was hot connections are good. You need to determine if it is a fuel or ignition problem. Then go from there. Good Luck
Cranks Won't Start

Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:08 pm

^X2^
There's lots of things that can fail when warm like coils, points, condensers, rotors, wires and plugs in the ignition system and pumps and float levels in the carb. Don't rule out tight valves or bad compression either and there's always the possibility of something floating around in the fuel tank intermittantly blocking the outlet, or a bad ignition switch.

There, does that narrow it down enough? :P

Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:53 pm

75bus4/me wrote: 1975 Kombi wrote: Stuartzickefoose wrote: was the intake manifold cold to the touch? that single carb can ice up the manifold very easily....try driving for like 10 mins from cold and see if the manifold gets cooler to the touch...if it iced up, it would keep the fuel from being a mist, and make it into drops, with will flood the engine basically, and after about 20 mins, it would warm up enough to start.

maybe?

busdaddy?

Yep could have been carb ice if the temp and dew points were close. Also I had a coil years ago that would heat up and fail so I would have to let it cool down to work again. Anything past 20 mins of running it would fail.

Great suggestions but in my case it was one of the warmest days I have driven around 82 degrees and I was in a parking lot teaching my son stick shift. The other thing is driving in the parking lot I was getting very little air flow only traveling around 5 mph. For us here in Arizona it was a winter day. :?

It can ice up easy on hotter days too, i watched my intake on a bug ice up in 70 degree weather once...just idling, i watched the frost form....first time i ever had heard about a cold issue.

brings new meaning to the term "cold air intake" :lol:

Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:59 pm

Carb ice depends on the temp and dew point numbers. If the numbers are close then the drop in temp going through the venturi will create ice on the walls of the carb and choke it off. The symptoms ahead of time is a gradual loss in the pedal response and then the engines dies.