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Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:17 am

plane_ben wrote: I drive a '62 SC with no belts. My main idea for driving is....

- So what if I get there a minute later.

- Drive the speed limit, everyone else is going to be going faster.

- Anticipate stops and watch traffic in front and behind you religiously.

- I told my wife, bury me in it if i die in an accident. :D
X2.
I would suggest two of the easiest safety upgrades: A dual-circuit master cylinder and a high-mounted 3rd brakelight of some sort. Once you are comfortable with driving your bus and how it handles, it becomes second nature to drive defensively.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:29 am

I ride a lot and hard with my -46 Harley motorcycle. And when I want to relax and feel safe I take the -56 bus full metal jacket to cover me up.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:48 am

The analogy of riding a m/c came to mind for me as well.
I have given this some thought in the past after I fairly recently got interested in VW buses.
Safety in an old bus certainly has to be a concern to anyone who spends any time driving one. I have come to the conclusion that it should be safer than riding a motorcycle on today's roads. You have to drive defensively and look at every other vehicle out there as a potential hazard. All stray animals can be an issue as well. You must keep alert and maintain your vehicle in top condition. As well as maintaining the condition of body and state of mind of the driver. One must weigh the benefits versus the risks of any activity. If you let the fear of driving an old bus overtake you then maybe you should drive something else. If you feel you have prepared yourself and your vehicle properly then the enjoyment of what you will do will shine thru.
Each of us has to find that balance of risk and fear. Whether it is daily commuting or cross country touring.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:51 am

framed wrote: I ride a lot and hard with my -46 Harley motorcycle. And when I want to relax and feel safe I take the -56 bus full metal jacket to cover me up.

-And compared to a motorcycle...the bus is pretty safe! My advice...

Live in the "what is" not the "what if"

Use your mirrors, drive in the mountains and don't live in metropolitan USA.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:30 pm

I'd say the best thing to do would be to mount a three point seatbelt system.
Haven't done it to my buses, but have thought very seriously about it.

Thread on installation:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1...e+seatbelt

Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:54 pm

Thank you to everyone who is dropping some information and feedback on the rumblings in my original post.

I do appreciate the opinions and knowledge from everyone. Please keep them coming, I'm a sponge when it comes to this sort of information.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:16 pm

Just like playing football in the street, messing around with poisonous snakes, or mixing liquor with firearms/firecrackers...

Where's the fun in NOT having something that can kill you?

Be the thrill you seek....

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:51 pm

im going to say this and dont take it the wrong way and think im being an ass. If you haven't drove your bus yet and you are already getting scared of getting in an accident in it. sell the bus now and buy a Volvo. with that said and out of the way im going to say this. ive been driving split buses since 1995. most of the last 17 years has been daily. now im older and freezing my balls off in the winters in not fun and cool anymore so my bus is now my toy. ive been in 3 wrecks in splits buses where 2 of them were totals and one was still driveable but with a twisted frame. ive had 3 other friends total out buses. buses are unsafe and dangerous as hell. know that from the start. they are old tin boxes on wheels with an engine. now once you're comfortable knowing that get in and drive. like mentioned before when driving your bus you need to think like your on a motorcycle and drive defensivlely and think everyone in the road is out to get you. you can think of passenger safety and protect yourself or protect the bus.technology and safety has improved since the 50s and 60s and there's nothing wrong with upgrading the brakes, lighting or restraints. upgrades are good and will help, it just depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend. stock brakes have always worked fine to me because i keep them in check. my new bus im working on is going to be drum brakes but i am upgrading it to dual circuit. do what you need to go to make yourself feel safer to protect you, your family and friends and your bus.
remember, all the best brakes, suspension, third brake lights and 5 point harness seat belts are not going to keep the drunks and the soccer moms texting in her Chevy Suburban from hitting you. look at the bus imagine getting into a wreck and think to yourself. do i want to get in a wreck in this thing, how will this tin box hold up to an impact with a SUV or car? like any other car buses have their weak spots and strong spots for impacts. there is a thread on here somewhere about nothing bus photos of wrecked buses. find that thread and look at it. one of my wrecks i was rear ended and pushed into the car in front of me square on. i drove that bus home and drove it for 6 more months. because the person that hit me swerved and only hit one half and the back of the bus and his the car in front of me it twisted the frame but i drove home. i could of fixed the bus but the frame was tweeked. the other wreck i was in i was young and trying to beat the yellow light and ended up hitting someone head-on in a sedan trying to beat the yellow as well. since their car hit the drivers side of my nose the impact was worse and the body caved in more and the force, the angle and height of the bus caused it to flip in the air and roll over and the fire dept had to cut me out. here's were it gets tricky, if i was wearing my seatbelt i might of lost my legs or they would of been broken. because i was tossed out of my seat from the impact only thing that happened to me was 2 broken ribs and a cracked shoulder blade and lots of bruising. did that wreck scare me away from buses? no. do i respect them more and the road? yes i drive a little more cautiously now and defensively. and even though my bus has seat belts i don't wear them during normal driving. am i being foolish for not wearing them, i dont know, probably. but in the back of my mind i think of the what if i was wearing them back them. but if no seat belts now is my choice and if i get into another wreck then ill have to deal with the outcome. im 35 now. when i get in my bus im not in a hurry to get where im going. i cruise 60-65 on the HWY and i am always looking out for the other drivers even the ones behind me. i sortof drive like sherlock holmes. i see a situation ahead of me or behind me and plan my reaction. this has helped me a few times. you've got to be on your guard while driving not only to protect you and your passengers but also to protect your bus. good luck and i hope i didn't scare you away from driving a bus

a pic of my 1965 panel when i had my head-on collision back in 1997. i keep this picture in my wallet as a reminder what not to do.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:58 pm

I hated driving in town in my bus with my stock brakes. Always had a pull to them I couldnt figure out. Always was adjusting them. I was standing on the brake pedal when the ex wife pulled her shit in front of me. I still think theres plenty of old bus left in my bus that hasnt been updated. It still goes a safe 65 max. Still is loud. Still doesnt even have a dome light that comes on when the door is open.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:42 pm

@widehatch... Great advice. About 20 years ago I was distracted while driving a winding mountain pass and hit a tree at about 50mph in my '61 Kombi (all stock, my first Bus :cry: ) I was 16 at the time, and had only been driving for a few months. The bus did remarkably well all things considered. Nobody was seriously injured (myself and 2 passengers, one in front and one in back.) The injuries would have been serious for us in the front if not for safety glass. The bus was totalled, and the frame was bent beyond repair (somebody would probably take the time/money to fix it nowadays.) I still choose not to wear a seat belt when driving around town. On the highway I usually wear it so that I am not thrown from the vehicle if I roll over.

I think the motorcycle analogy was the best advice in this thread. Just be careful and drive defensively (oh, and pay attention 100% of the time.) And of course keep your vehicle mechanically sound with brakes, lights, etc.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:21 pm

Spitty1974 wrote: I don't think I am at a point where I would not enjoy the experience of driving the bus.......I just have been thinking ...

Thinking is good, it's part of what will keep you alive. :)
It's good to be aware of the pitfalls and take steps to counter them, but nothing is going to make an old bus "safe". You can improve a little over the original, but it's not gonna make much difference if someone hits you head on. Or from most other directions, for that matter.
It's like giving a performance on the stage, or competing in sports. You prepare yourself as best you can (by making your bus good, learning from others and understanding the ins and outs of it), and then just dive in and drive, and don't worry. That doesn't mean be reckless, you still need to pay attention, just keep things in perspective and have fun.

Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:38 pm

Any thoughts about throwing a Hurst style bumper on? I'm not sure if they would add any major safety upgrade, but certainly couldn't hurt. Anyone know if these help with safety?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:57 pm

Justin@ Kombi Haus has the "safest" bumper I've ever seen on a split bus.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:02 am

unclespanky wrote: Justin@ Kombi Haus has the "safest" bumper I've ever seen on a split bus.

you aint lyin :shock:

Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:42 am

Spitty1974 wrote: Do others feel this way, does this cross your mind often?......

Man, I have long posts. It is a problem!

Well, my answer to this is "yes". I am in the process of restoring a '67 21 Window and buying a '58 panel. Bus safety is certainly a worry.

I guess I would offer up the following. Searching the web and this site for "bus safety" is always a mixed blessing. You will certainly get valuable advice on how to improve the safety of a bus (which is a good thing), but you will also start getting overwhelmed with all the instances of bus disasters. The web is a wonderful thing. It gives you access to countless pieces of data that no one could have re-created even a few short years ago. However, that "data overload" can begin to distort your reality. You start thinking every problem is way more pervasive because of all the "examples" you can now find instantly.

For example, I went through a period where I thought every VW was going to burst into flames. I kept searching "VW engine fires" and I could find example after example of crispy VWs. I drove a '68 beetle as a teenager and I started thinking it must have been a miracle it did not instantly burst into flames. After working myself up about it, I then decided to just search "car fires". Guess what? I found countless examples of all sorts of cars bursting into flames. There were numerous examples of modern cars, etc., just combusting for no reason. If I had only been looking for "Honda car fires" I think I would have been equally convinced every Honda was about to explode. The data is just too easy to get at times. Now, did I learn some things searching for VW engine fires? Yes. It helped me reduce that risk. Do I think VW engine fires are a larger risk then a new Honda? Yes. However, my first searches made it appear it was going to happen "all the time". When in reality, it was just made to appear that way given how easy it was to now find examples. If you went to a local VW show and asked that relatively small group of people "how often does you VW burst into flames?" you would probably think it never happens (or seldom). The web is a VERY large sample size when asking these questions. The actual risk falls somewhere in-between.

A few quick additional examples: Search "home invasions" and you will never sleep at night convinced they are exploding everywhere. Search for "bad accidents in XXXXX" using your current modern car and you will be convinced all those 5 star ratings you purchased are worthless. You need to balance the ease of finding "bad data" on the web with the reality of how often it actually occurs. The web distorts the bad (due to an amazing sample size) when all you do is search for bad examples. However, that is not to say, the risks are not real. However, the first time you take your bus around the block the odds of it bursting into flames and being rammed by a 5,000 lb. SUV are not nearly as high as the web probably made you feel. When you start "educating" yourself about these risks to the point you begin to distort reality in the negative (bad accidents happen to everyone), it is basically the same as the person that denies all risks and believes nothing bad ever happens and VW buses are perfectly safe. Both people are living in their own made up reality... one is just more depressing :-)

I wish you the best with your choice. I certainly hope none of us become the "odds breakers" that get seriously injured or killed in our buses. However, all us will die, and some in ways that will be considered "very unlikely" by death standards. I guess there are worst ways to meet our maker then with a smile on our face cruising down the road in a bus. It certainly beats slipping on a curb and cracking our head open (search for that on the web and you might stop walking as well...). In the end, live right & treat people well, and when the time comes, you have nothing to worry about (ok, sorry for the religious plug for those offended - however, I do believe it!).

Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:26 am

feastbeast wrote: Any thoughts about throwing a Hurst style bumper on? I'm not sure if they would add any major safety upgrade, but certainly couldn't hurt. Anyone know if these help with safety?

i have one on my 65 panel/camper. put it on since i drive to lake havasu,az,yuma,az and all over california.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:47 am

@rwmindy: Most VW engine fires are caused by one of 2 things. Either failing/brittle old fuel lines, or a plastic fuel filter in the engine bay (between the fuel pump and the carb.) It's a good idea to replace the fuel line on any VW and replace/relocate the fuel filter closer to the tank before driving it. This is true for any older vehicle as you can never know the condition of the fuel line or when it was last replaced unless you do it yourself. Also be sure to get the correct size hose. If everything is new and correctly installed, the chance of an engine fire is negligible.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:49 am

A. Safety

Maintenance is critical, it must stop well, it must steer well.

check your brakes, tire preseesure, shocks and steering. Steering is also affected by your bearings,grease, king-link pin adjustment, etc.

If the brakes feel iffy stop and fix them dont risk a brake failure. If the front end is loose, check bearing, the link pins, center pin. It may take an hour but itll save you in an emergency.

For those tht dont recall everyone thought VWs were not reliable 20 yrs ago - truth is they are incredibly reliable if maintained - same goes for safety.

B. Exit Strategy (it all about driving defensively)

- always have an out - plan for an out - make sure you know where you are and the person beside behind and in front are.

point the vehicle and look in the direction you want to go. Dont worry about whats in front by the time it is an emergency its too late - you need to get you and the vehicle out of the way. Vehicle damage can be fixed

A bus will handle in an emergency if you know its limits - if you dont it rolls. I have avoided accidents by using the median on 101 . Dont be afraid to take it down the side if it looks like you are going to crunch the nose.

I have been driving my double cab for 15 y. on 101, in NM, from NM to CA, from CANADA to CA, and now east coast. Yes I drive with my kids. Yes I drive on highway with RGBs. I stay visible and I know where people are . It is safe if you stay smart.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:34 pm

oarse wrote: @rwmindy: Most VW engine fires are caused by one of 2 things. Either failing/brittle old fuel lines, or a plastic fuel filter in the engine bay (between the fuel pump and the carb.)

And don't forget the infamous fuel line fitting into the carb that loosens and pops out, spraying fuel all over the engine. Be sure to do the safety wire with clamps fix for it.

Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:39 pm

Dual-circuit brake upgrade, brakes in good condition

Radial tires

Drive like you are riding a motorcycle (pretend no one sees you)

Stay off 101/major freeways if you can help it

Don't run yellow lights

Make sure all of your lights work!