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Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:05 am

I'm new to the forums and "may" be new to a 72 Karmann Ghia coup.
I'm looking and pondering purchasing my BIL's 72 Karmann Ghia and it's in need of TLC. It doesn't run now but did when he parked it. I drove it approx 3 yrs ago and it ran good, didn't smoke and everything seemed to work but it has fallen on hard times lately. He parked it in the elements approx 2 yrs ago and it hasn't moved since.
The paint is weathering and chiping in places, the interior while mostly complete needs attention and theres spider webs growing all over the engine.
It appears to have the stock muffler (large long muffler w/two small exhaust tips exiting out the back where it appears they should, based on the notches in the rear body panel.
A couple questions.
1) The engine appears stock w/the exception of the air cleaner which is one of those small chrome performance types. Is there any easy external indicators that would show that it's a dual port 1600 or perhaps bored & stroked?
2) Is there any "gotchas" I should look for in regards to common failures on this model?

Based on what I've posted thus far, any ballpark ideas on it's worth?

Thanks
Dave

Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:30 am

Volfandt wrote: ...based on the notches in the rear body panel.

There shouldn't be any notches in the rear sheetmetal like those in a Bug's rear apron. In a Ghia, the exhaust tips will exit below the rear bodywork and bumper.

Hard to tell if the motor's been bored or stroked without some disassembly, although you may be able to see if there are spacers under the #2 or #4 cylinders. The spacers are used in stroked motors to lower the compression ratio. It's pretty unlikely that someone would modify the motor to that extent and still run the stock carb, unless it was needed to pass emissions testing.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:46 pm

Heres some pics from 3 yrs ago when it was in alot better shape than it is now.

Dave

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Sorry to bump up this old thread but I've progresseed from "thinking about it" to officially rescueing this fine automobile :D
I'll be picking it up and hauling it to my humble abode tomorrow.

The poor thing is in serious need of TLC. it doesn't run and hasn't since it died when they parked it. Paint is peeling in large chips.

On closer inspection I believe it's a dual port 1600. The intake manifold appears to have two separate channels all the way to the head.
Someone has put some work into the car as it appears to have many non-OEM features such as the shifter, 3 gauges in the blocked off radio port, radio in the glove box with some kind of custom speaker enclosures in the footwells. It also has custom seats and steering wheel. and it appears to have an electric fuel pump mounted in the engine compartment.
I'll know more and document my questions w/pics, as I'll have many questions :D
The one thing that stands out more than anything else is that it's going to need a paint job. There doesn't appear to be a rust problem as much as the paint looks to be just peeling off. Bad paint prep perhaps?
I'm looking forward into rescueing this Ghia.

Dave

Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:48 pm

Good to know the rescue is on! It does appear that someone put some care into it at one time. The peeling paint is most like due to poor surface prep as you say. It's going to need stripping and proper prep of course. The engine is a dual port with a couple accessories, but like mentioned, it's probably mostly stock unless there were other reasons for keeping the stock induction. You can actually get decent performance from that setup if you tweak it right, and possibly swap the intake manifold. The stock intake screws up flow where the upright pipe meets the horizontal runner...
Interestingly, that air cleaner on the end of the stock hose works better than mounting it directly on the carb. Only thing missing is preheat :wink:

Paul

Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:55 pm

Thanks Altema & rcooled.

After measureing my 6x12 trailer and the Ghia, I decided to rent a car hauler and not chance it. With help from my BIL & SIL we pushed it up onto the trailer and after a short 30 minute drive, the Ghia was at it's new home.

Surprisingly there was enough juice in the battery to turn the engine over a time or two so I put a charger on it and tried starting it up. She'd turn over but wouldn't fire. I checked the fuel gauge and it was empty so I added a couple gals and the gauge registered- yaa.
I pulled the fuel line off the carb and verified the elec pump was working so I know fuewl is getting to the carb. I then injected a squirt of gas directly into the carb and tried, still no fire.
My BIL installed this elec fuel pump because he thought the mechanical pump was bad. You can see how he looped the in & out on it. The mech pump may be good. Should I stay w/the elec or go back to the mechanical?
Also what is that elec switch on the left side of the carb for? The "hot" lead loops from it over to the electric choke assembly.

Fuel system seems OK, now on to the electrics
I then went on to check for spark and determined there wasn't any coming out of the coil. There is 12v on the coils "+" terminal w/the key switch on. My multimeter is low powered and isn't good for reading coils etc., but it did register some resistance. after wiping off the coil I discovered it was chrome. I tried another known good coil with similar resistance readings and it still wouldn't fire.
This is when I noticed that the chrome distributer had a Compu-Fire electronic ign module. Is there any way to test these devices?
It has two wires, one goes to the switched hot lead on the "+" side of the coil and the other lead goes to the coils "-" lead. Wonder if thats right?
I went out and picked up a set of points and a condensor and will try them tomorrow.
Another question, the chrome dist doesn't have a vaccum advance unit but does have a 4 lobe cam. The number I got off it is 9230081-094 JF4. What "brand is this dist and will points work in it?

Heres a shot of the chrome coil.

The generator also appears to either be chrome and or polished aluminum. How many amps does this put out?

I took a couple pics under the engine just for GP.

The very oily oil pan.

I've ordered a Bentley service manual. The wireing in this car is a hodge podge of OEM and non OEM. It looks OK but since it has been rewired theres no OEM color coding to trace. But I'm not overly worried at this point as it should start as it sits. A shot of the highly corroded OEM connector in the engine sompartment.

This bad boy is gonna be project :D
I want to get it running before I get into the problems this car needs correcting. The paint is, well in VERY bad shape but I'll get into this later.
Someone obviously put some time & $$'s into the accessories on this but they don't do a thing for me if it won;t run. Tomorrow I hope to get it running w/points.
Dave

Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:12 am

Switching it to points just to get it running is a good idea. The Compufire may be good, but you don't want to chase your tail if it's bad.

That switch on the left side of the carb is the idle cutoff solenoid. It shuts off fuel at idle when the ignition turns off. The solenoid will get its +12vdc from the positive side of the coil, which also is tied to the electic choke.

Regarding the fuel pump, the simple thing to do is go with the mechanical pump and make sure you have the rod and everything in place. The electric pump was probably installed because of the mechanical pump failing, or because they felt the flow was inadequate.

The distributor is incorrect, as that year should have vacuum advance. Your carb is setup for a DVDA distributor, which is dual vacuum, dual advance. The vacuum port for advance is on the left side of the carb, and the vacuum port for retard is on the rear of the carb. You can get the car running on that distributor using points and condensor for a 009 distributor, then switch out to a vacuum advance distributor if desired (less or no stumble, better MPG).

Not sure how much amperage that gen will put out, but it will most likely be stock output unless it's a high capacity unit with special windings. I'm not sure how to tell the difference if it's not marked, as I've always had the stocker.

Your left heat riser tube is missing, meaning your intake manifold never gets to operating temperature. Worse than that, the opening in the exhaust will put out a lot of exhaust fumes unless it's capped, repaired, or replaced.

Hope it fires up (with new oil of course) after you get the ignition sorted out 8)

Paul

Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:04 pm

Thanks for the info Paul. I know my way around internal combustion engines, especially those from the 50's, 60's & 70's but this is my 1st air cooled VW. from what I've learned I'm impressed :D

Well I got it fired up and the good news is theres no smoking, knocking or any other unusual noises. The generator charges and the oil pressure & tach work, I may not have run it long enough for the temp gauge to register.

Bad news is I've got it rigged to run. That 009 dist doesn't have a large enough hole for the condensors electrical connector to secure in it and I had to cut the plastic grommet-block down inorder to fit. It's so loose that I used a rubber band to hold it steady so it wouldn't vibrate around and short out the points connector. Since theres no screw hole for mounting the condensor to the dist, I just rigged up a ground wire to it and let it dangle, it does fire the coil now :D
I'm going to have to decide if I want to keep that pretty chrome dist and order up a new Compu-Fire module or go w/the OEM DVDA, I'm leaning w/the DVDA for the reasons stated.

With fire the only way I could get it to run was to spray gas diectly into the carb.
After playing with it awhile I decided to just pull the carb, take it apart and see what condition it's internals were in. BAD, bad & bad. It was fuill of crud. It's a 34 PICT and it's the 1st one I've taken apart. Theres a brass jet at the bottom of the bowl that was coated in crud. I screwed it out, cleaned it and the passage up and put it back. At the top of the bowl is a long jet and it too was full of crud. Again a little cleanup and some pressure air cleared it. I also pulled the large and small fuel adjustments on the left side and cleaned them up. The large was 2 1/4 turns out and the small one was 2 turns. I put them back at those settings when I reinstalled them after cleaning.
I blew out all the ports I could find and put it all back together. She starts and runs great at high speed but needs choke at all ranges. I found an open vaccum port at the front of the carb (I'm calling the front the side that faces rearward) and covered it but it still needs choke to run, so it's still sucking air somewhere.
Paul, when you say theres a nother vaccum port on the "back" of the carb, is this the port I'm calling the front or is there a port thats facing the blower housing?

I ran out of time but hope to get back on it either later tonight or the weekend. Got some honey do's for tomorrow :D

Hearing it run has motivated me.
Dave

Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:14 pm

Check the intake manifold as well. Sometimes there will be a vac port that requires a cap. If its missing the engine will run rough.

Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:07 pm

Good suggestion NOVA Airhead, ends up the manifold was the source of the air leak, but it was at the rubber seals where the middle part connects to the downtubes. I didn't find it at 1st tho, I started searching after I pulled athe carb and rebuilt it.
I don't recommend this carb kit (GP Sorensen) the float needle valve wouldn't work so I had to reuse the old one. The gaskets and the excelerator pump and choke pull off did work.

The clean carb almost looks out of place installed.

Bad news was that I still had to choke the carb inorder for the engine to run. A few well placed squirts of carb cleaner found the leaking manifold seals. The right one moreso than the left side.
More bad news, after running the engine for awhile the small oil stain on the floor turned into a very large puddle. Knowing I was going to have to get an intake manifold seal kit I decided to try to determine from whence that oil was squirting from. So I started it back up and it wasn't very long before I found the drips comeing from the front of the engine.

I'm guessing its the crank seal so coupled with eveything else I've been finding, dropping the engine became necessary.
The oily bellhousing tells the tale.

The engine came out fairly easily but I ended up removing the left rear wheel and slideing it out through the wheel well.
In looking at the engine and blower housing I noticed that not only is there no thermostat but it also appears that the linkage and flaps were also removed.

So it looks like I not only have to fix the oil and air leaks but also check into whats missing on the engine cooling system.

I've also got a decision to make with regards to the intake manifold. Since it's missing the heat risers it needs to be replaced but from what I've been reading, a dual carb setup is not only more efficient in MPG but it also increases power. I like this :D
I also like stock and plan on trying to get the engine back to it's stock form but those dual carb setups seems like an "good" mod.
Dave

Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:22 am

after doing some more research I've verified that the engine doesn't have any flaps, linkages or thermostat.
Based on this and the fact that it's been leaking oil for awhile, could this be the reason for the crankseal leak?
I think I'll remove the tins 1st before I remove the clutch assembly, it's always possible the oil cooler isleaking correct?

I also forgot to post a pic of my honored visitor last night, my grandon Brayden and his pop. At the rate I'm finding problems to correct (and I haven't even started on the exterior/interior) he'll be ready to drive it by the time I get it roadable :D

Looks like I'm in the market for either a new single carb intake or duals, replacing the missing cooling system tins, thermostat, flappers & linkages and a permanent solution to the distributor.
Man, I must have wanted a project :D
Dave

Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:40 am

I was in the same boat as you back in Feb. 2011. My 68 Ghia was missing some tin, flaps, thermostat and cable for the hot air breather tube. The thing had been sitting 15 years. The Samba classifieds are the place to find these things. Little over a year later I've had the 68 on the road for a month now, as of yesterday 32.77MPG.

Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:55 am

it looks like you are missing the left and right sled tins and maybe the two pieces that fit directly under the cylinders. also the left and right rear pieces. I just finished doing the tins on mine. the flaps are important for cooling even if thermostat not installed.

Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:03 am

foamermetal, words of encouragment are always welcome :D

ovghiaguy, good eye, all are now on order.

Question re. external oil filter kit. Since I've got the engine out and everythings accessable, what would be the best (highest quality, lowest price, ease of install, commonly purchased oil filter), external oil filter kit to get for this 1600 dual port?
Theres alot to digest so I'm looking for the boards recommendations.
Dave

Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:08 pm

Arrived home to find a couple 3 pkgs awaiting me. Funny, I'm still awaiting some parts (seal, flywheel lock etc., ) that I ordered before these.
Now I've got a manifold w/functioning heat risers

Hopefully these two new CV boots will fit so I can replace a couple ripped ones.

All that oil that leaked out the front seal soaked the clutch and may have contributed to the pressure plate scoreing. I decided to replace them and the kit included athrowout bearing, pilot bearing, grease and a cheap plastic alignment tool.

Thanks to Samba classifieds I should be able to get that busted fuel door working again.

Since I'm still awaiting the seal, thermostat,flapper assembly and a couple new tins, I decided to strip off clean & paint the tins I do have.

The tins preparing to get serviced.

Cleaned & painted w/Hi Temp gloss black. I noticed when I was cleaning & stripping the tins that they were once the same shade of red as the body. I bet it looked good.

While fitting the manifold I ran into yet another situation to correct.
Someone had capped the heat riser flanges and cut off the left side heat riser tube that ran from the left flange to the muffler. They left a couple inch stub on the muffler and welded it shut.

Now I have several options to ponder to fix this.
1)Cheapest, fab up a new heat riser tube useing either a piece of 1/2" conduit or copper plumbng line, both of which I have laying around.

2) I've been pondering adding a Maxi 2 filter pump and it stcks out to the left from the oil pump. That heat riser tube would interfere with this plan so it opens up a few more options.
a) reroute the fabbed up heat riser tube to anotehr spot on the side of the muffler. Drill a hole just big enough to stick the tube in and seal it up w/JB weld or similar. I don;t know if I could just mount it anywhere on the muffler tho.
b) replace the old muffler w/a new stock muffler (I'm wanting stock for heat) that has the heat riser on the right side. CIP1 has a Dansk european OEM style muffler that appears to have the heat riser tube on the right side. I've got an email to them to make sure.
c) just allow the left side heat riser to just vent to open air down under the tins. Don't know is this will mess up the heat riser functionality otr not.
It seems that I keep running into obsticles in my quest to try and get this engine back to OEM configuration. Theres always something :D
Dave

Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:53 am

The best solution to the missing riser pipe is to replace the muffler. Get it with the low pressure side on the right like you want to make a maxi pump easier if you want, as it makes no difference to the engine which direction the heat flows. Just venting it below the tins is an exhaust leak and not worth the time or cost saved. I can't comment on the full flow kits, as I just cobbled together necessary parts from a bin and got the filter pad that installed in the position I wanted. The pump cover and remote pad were cleaned up with a Dremel bit to improve flow. Hoses were transmission hoses that are rated for 400 PSI, and I used new barbed fittings from a hardware store with sharp barbs. Hoses fit so that you have to work to get them back off, even with out clamps. Fuel injection clamps were used, not worm gear. The system has been bone dry and clean on the outside for about 4,000 miles now. However, the pump filter requires no case modifications or hoses.

Paul

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:22 am

Well Paul, replacement of the muffler is the way I'm going to go.
Been studying pics and online parts sources and it seems the right side heat tube is more common but not by much.
I think I am going to w/some slash cut tips over the pea shooters tho :D

re. filter pump. I decided to add an external spin on filter while I have the engine out and since I'm not going to split the cases, the filter pump seems like the best/cheapest bet for me. I've also decided to go w/the Maxi 2 w/the 26mm pump but I've got to hold off until I can verify which cam I have. OEM says 4 bolt dished but I can tell that someone has been into the engine so I better be safe than sorry. Unfortunately I have to await the oil pump puller I ordered as I've had no luck getting it out so I can see the cam gear. Theres always something it seems :D

I pulled the "new" looking mechanical fuel pump my BIL installed and discovered that the lever in it was broken. Either the push rod was installed incorrectly or it's too long for the pump. I found the pretty chrome fuel pump in a bag and it looks to be rebuildable. I couldn't find any name or part number on it. In any case if I can't rebuild it, I'm still going to install it for now and run the electric pump. As we all know, chrome = mo HP :D

I also adjusted the valves. They were WAY out of spec. I set them at .006. It was very easy w/the engine out and at a nice easy to reach height :D

Spent a few hrs going over the car. I can now open and close the trunk.
The wireing mess will need attention on down the road.....

I removed that carpet in the engine compartment and thankfully there was only surface rust under it. At one time the compartment matched the car color. I may just prime the metal and reinstall the cleaned carpet, I dunno, I'll ponder that for awhile.

Found out why the passenger side door wouldn't latch, the handle was busted. My BIL must have left the pass window cracked over the yrs and rain got into the door. No rust thank goodness but the latch was rusted & locked up which is probably how the handle got busted. PB Blaster has got the latch working good as new and I've got a new handle on order. Unfortunately the cardboard (or whatever type backing it is) is wasted. A new interior will be needed but thats on down the road for now.
It's black w/red trim now, I'm thinking of going w/a lighter interior color.

I'm also thinking I'm going to ask my sister to go and smack her husband upside the head, for what he's done to this car :D
Dave

Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:41 am

Lol, you are really getting things taken care of, but I don't know about your sister slapping her husband :lol:
Not sure about the slash tips, but the taper muffler tips flow better than stock, sound deeper, and most importantly get rid of the whistle!

Wiring is a mess? Welcome to the world of Karmann Ghia's :wink:

My ignition was wired through the headlights... you had to push the headlight switch to turn the engine off!

Paul

Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:19 pm

I think I've discovered yet another missing piece of tin, the bellhousing tin. Heres an example: http://www.pacificcustoms.com/AC119523.html

I know theres no tin mounted on the tranny bellhousing nor at the front of the engine to seal it against what appears to be a rubber seal around the bellhousing opening in the firewall. I noticed this seal when I was cleaning out the engine compartment last night and wondered - to what does this seal against? :shock:

Question, do Ghias have this tin and if so does it secure to the engine or tranny bell housing?
Would anyone be kind enough to post some pics? I've done a search and haven't come up w/anything I can make a determination with.

Thanks
Dave

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:47 pm

^ yes, ghia's get that piece of tin. it fits over back of engine and bolts down to the other tin. if you get a repo as your link shows, extensive trimming will have to be done for it to fit. hole for throttle cable tube will have to be slotted. such is aftermarket tin.